Podcast Transcript
**Josh Nichols**
Is being good at golf as simple as choosing to be good at golf?
**Paul Salter**
So the difference between simple and easy, let’s start there. They are not the same thing, though they are often misused interchangeably. Life is simple, success is simple. It is not easy to say the least. When I hear choosing or choice, I immediately go to commitment. So therefore, if I am to augment the question in response to say as simple as committing to being good at golf,
I think committing to being good at golf is simple. There is no shortage of a blueprint, a track record of what to do, how to do, and when to do. But as you and I both know and are different in our own approaches to helping people overcome, it’s the what and the how is great, but why don’t you do what you know you need to do to actually achieve that success? So that’s how I would take it.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, and that’s that choice or commitment, right?
And I was listening back to our first one and I think one of the things you said was it’s not a, you know, we can find anything on the internet. It’s not a knowledge problem. It’s a mindset problem is what’s between us and improvement or us and success. So it’s not necessarily choosing. And my version of the question was, I like your reframe.
your augment over to commitment, but you know my version is like I want to be a good golfer or I’m going to call myself a good golfer therefore I am. Is that unrealistic? that, I don’t know, that flawed?
**Paul Salter**
It is until it isn’t. And what I mean by that is that you’re creating an identity. Our identity is encompassing our behaviors or our habits, our beliefs, and then specifically you alluded to the words we use to speak to and about ourselves. If they’re hollow because you’re shouting from the top of the world, I am the greatest freaking golfer out there and you haven’t touched your clubs in a couple of weeks, well clearly there’s an incongruency. But.
**Josh Nichols**
you
**Paul Salter**
If you are really embodying and owning, like I am preparing, I’m working relentlessly to be that version, you’re embodying that outcome now, which can accelerate the journey to achieving it. So I’m all for that. So long as the action aligns with and backs up the words you use.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, hollow words are worthless, right? So that leads into…not hollow leads into hypnosis or hypnotherapy, but this idea leads into how do we…how can we have legitimate substantive words? Like, what…let’s ask it like this. What’s the language
I can or should use, or you can or should use to yourself as you’re talking to yourself in the mirror, as you’re thinking inner dialogue to yourself, to maximize your ability to get good at golf. What… how does that… how should that language sound?
**Paul Salter**
like that question because a lot of us are taught or Google tells us when we do a quick search on, know, affirmations, positive affirmations, like I’m the best golfer in the world. I’m the best putter. And you start talking, you know, either present or past, I mean, or a positive future oriented. And it sounds good. It might feel good for a day or two to shout that into the mirror a few times, but there’s probably a deep part of you that doesn’t believe it at all.
So that creates an incongruency. And in terms of incongruency, you’re always gonna fall back to what you deeply believe you are deserving, worthy, and capable of. Now, how can we circumnavigate that? And I’ll take that this is straight from my mentor, is we have to soften the language a little bit because going zero to 100 creates such a vast incongruency, you don’t believe that you feel immediately dejected and defeated. So instead, the verbiage might sound like every day in an every way, I’m becoming.
you know, insert adjective descriptor. So now we’ve taken this pressure off of, I’ve suddenly made this overnight transformation. And instead it’s every day in an every way implies I’m taking consistent action to improve, which hopefully your actions do mirror that. That is actually true. No pun intended on the mirror, but it worked out nicely. but it shows stepwise progress, a commitment. There’s that magic word again, to consistently doing what will help you be or achieve whatever that goal is for yourself. So that word, that verb,
**Josh Nichols**
Mm-hmm.
**Paul Salter**
every day and in every way I’m becoming or I’m doing helps close the gap between reality and expectation.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, you’re putting action first. You’re not, you’re, you’re, you’re creating substance. You’re not letting substance create itself. You are creating substance.
**Paul Salter**
And you’re also taking the pressure off of yourself. Like if you’re struggling with confidence, let’s use an arbitrary but relatable example, and suddenly you’re just gonna start yelling in the mirror, I’m confident, I’m the most confident person. Like it rings hollow, it doesn’t feel that good because the moment you walk out of the bathroom, it’s like, yeah, I just lied to myself for 30 seconds.
But if you can instead say like, every day in every way, like I’m taking an action to feel confident. I’m following through on my word, my commitment to myself. I’m finding my voice to be courageous in a situation at work with a significant other, asking somebody out on a date. Now you’ve got the action to back it up. And instead of expecting yourself to wake up tomorrow confident, you’re proving to yourself, I just took an action that demonstrates confidence. Therefore I can feel confident and that’s a good place to be.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, I’ve heard a definition of confidence is like undeniable proof of your capability or undeniable evidence and
is how can you be confident about something that you have yet to do? Like you’ve never asked, you’ve never successfully asked someone out and they say yes to you. How can you be confident in that thing? Or you know, let’s, this isn’t a dating show for golf. I don’t even know if we’ve mentioned the word golf yet. For you’re on the golf course, you’ve never won a golf tournament before.
Maybe you’ve never made a birdie before you’ve never broken 80 before how can you be confident in that those things can happen?
**Paul Salter**
So I think confidence can be broken down into general confidence and then obviously we can get incredibly nuanced niche and specific about where that confidence shows up.
I also think confidence is transferable. And what I mean by that is first, to me, like I love what you shared about your definition of confidence, stacking undeniable proof. Second to that, for me, the fastest way to build confidence is to follow through on the commitments you made to yourself. Specifically, the little commitments you make in your head you don’t tell anybody. Without shortcuts, without cheating. With that said,
I come back to the cold plunge or the ice bath often because for me, you know, that’s a promise I make to myself.
I have a weird love-hate relationship with it. don’t really ever want to do it, but I love the moment I’m in there and the moment after. But when I follow through on that, like I start to literally have undeniable proof. I said I was going to do something hard. I did it. I walk a little taller. My chest is out a little bit more and I can bring the energy of confidence. Remember, all emotions are just energies, energies and motions. We can bring that energy into a certain situation. Now we go to the golf course specific example. You’ve played great rounds of golf.
played great rounds of golf consistently, you’ve beaten other golfers, we can leverage that undeniable proof. We can create a confidence bank account is what I like to call it. And we can tap into that bank account. We can make a withdrawal when we need it both to remind us of our potential in those moments we need to perform to win that next level of success tournament.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, you’re… You know, there’s… Winning a golf tournament is not magic. It’s made up of a bunch of little components, right? It’s hitting the right golf shots. It’s it’s handling pressure. It’s What is it? Like, removing the distraction of other players or of a leaderboard. It’s grinding when it gets tough. It’s getting up and down when you miss greens, right? So there’s all these little components that winning
the next level is made up of. So you’ve probably done some level of all of those, you just haven’t done the, like, final one of, like, you actually won, right? So you’ve done all the components that can lead to winning. Just because you haven’t actually won does not mean you can’t do it. So when people say something like, I have to be confident in order to win, but I have to win, I have to
know that I can win before I can be confident. So it’s the catch 22. And so how could I ever truly be confident? Well, you’re trying to jump straight to the end result. There’s like other components to fill it with evidence.
**Paul Salter**
And your perception creates the self-inflicted pressure you feel in the 18th green. Let’s say, for example, you’ve got to sink a five-foot putt to win the tournament. Have you ever made a five-foot putt before? Yeah, I’ve made thousands. Okay, cool. This is still just a five-foot putt. Your perception, the expectation, what this means to you, blah, blah, blah, starts to cloud that. creates a little extra energy that manifests as tension, tightness, distraction, and suddenly the five-foot putt feels impossible. But if you strip all of that away, it’s still just a five-foot putt.
that you’ve made thousands of times.
**Josh Nichols**
Does that perception, that expectation, all the layers that we add to it, is there legitimacy to that, or is that unnecessary added baggage and unhelpful baggage that we should strip away?
**Paul Salter**
That’s great question. think first what comes to mind is it’s not all your fault. I’ll circle back on that in a moment. Second though, and I’ve just had this download right now, so thank you for that. It’s almost as if we need to create some of that to validate just how much we’ve sacrificed to help us feel it was worth it. And what I mean by that is if we just…
If we’re stoic and robotic over that five foot putter to win the tournament, we’ve worked for 12 months to win, you your club championship, for example, where all those extra long nights, early mornings, you know, maybe missed out time with your significant other, your children, were they worth it? If you just still feel numb, empty or hollow, maybe, maybe not. That’s your own unique perspective. When it comes back to perception though, perception, can kind of equate and use interchangeably here your beliefs.
Winning this tournament, if you win said tournament, you believe what about yourself. If you lose, you believe what about yourself. Or what is your perception about winning or losing? How will others perceive you? A lot of that is instilled in you from your parents, your upbringing, and your environment.
And as a result, you’re kind of just set up with those different lenses. I like to say beliefs are nothing more than lenses or filters through which we see the world or events. And it’s up to you to update or upgrade those lenses, you know, to go from 2040 vision to 2020, if you will. So they’re more clear and aligned with who you are and where you’re going in your life. having the right perspective, not perception, can allow you to then put up the right perception that at the end of the day, it’s still a five foot putt. At the end of the day, your husband, your wife, your children,
still love you, you’re still a great golfer, whether or not that putt goes in. Much easier said than done, I’ll be the first to admit, but that’s where we want to get to in terms of starting to neutralize the emotions around that moment.
**Josh Nichols**
Hmm. And you said it’s not all your fault. What were you referring to there?
**Paul Salter**
So by the age of seven, it’s estimated that about 95 % of your belief system is formed.
And we all have, many people say three core beliefs, I say four. And what I mean by that is we all have a belief about ourselves, what we are worthy, deserving, and capable of. We have a belief about others, are they trustworthy? Can we trust them? Yes or no. We have a belief about life. Life is either fair or unfair. And then we have a belief about money. There’s either never enough or there’s always enough. So these beliefs are instilled just based on your surroundings, the way your parents talk about
other people about life, about money, the way you see them interact. You remember that you hear the old cliche all the time, like when you’re really young, you’re like a sponge. You’re picking up on every unconscious and conscious thing your parents are demonstrating, their body language, their nonverbal cues, and all of this goes into the beautiful processing center that is your brain to spit out this lens, this perception. So, you know, for me, for example, I’m the oldest of four, my dad’s the second oldest of eight, and his dad was the only one bringing in money. Lack, scarcity.
were kind of a theme in his life, which got passed down to me. So for a while, I struggled mightily with lack, scarcity. This is actually why I hired a mindset coach when I was playing poker professionally, because fear of loss was costing me a lot of freaking money, and I had to learn to let go of that. And when I did, it was like a switch was flipped, and suddenly I was freed up to start seeing the abundance, which created this vast amount of confidence in myself, and then things started moving in the right direction, to say the least.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, what what switch was flipped?
**Paul Salter**
just finally recognizing there was a different way of operating rather than fear. And what I mean by that is, know, poker is a game of math among many other things, but I’d find myself in these situations and I’m going to hyperbolize a bit where like, I mean, have my pot odds or I’m like 80 % to win the pot based on the given dynamics of the hand and just seeing like an arbitrary threshold cross, maybe it’s a thousand dollars or $10,000 of that money having to be in the pot. Like that arbitrary threshold that would just my,
It’s actually society or my conscious mind is created. It was like whoa, wait a second. Like I can’t risk a thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars I’m just gonna fold when eight out of ten times I’m winning, you know five or ten times that amount of money, whatever it may be So just finding myself in those positions and finally being able to respond Rather than react take a step back diffuse the emotion from the situation I could fall back on my study my awareness that was once
hidden from me because I was so emotionally charged operating with this destructive form of tunnel vision. Now I was aware of all my options. I could confidently make this decision knowing eight times out of ten it was going to be profitable and that was absolutely worth it. It just took me a little while.
**Josh Nichols**
Hmm. Yeah, the the Sub subconscious having been filled with all these beliefs Across your across your whole life from and it’s not all your fault. You know, it’s your parents Maybe have the most to do with it of of the stories you tell yourself of the beliefs that live in your head so So to to
You described what what switch was flipped, but how do you think? Like what are the mechanisms of the flipping? What how could someone listening right now? Flip the switch of a lot of their limiting stuff
**Paul Salter**
So let’s be candid, I’m biased, I’m a hypnotherapist, hypnosis literally changed my life. But let’s remove hypnosis for a second. We have to remember those beliefs.
are designed to help you, to protect you, to keep you safe. So let’s think about it from my story for a second. If I grew up with a scarcity mindset or just a sense of lack because that’s all I ever knew, if I were suddenly the opposite and I was all abundant, there’s always enough money, I make a ton of money, that would create a disconnect or a tension between me and my family. And again, I’m a bit exaggerating, but it’s actually incredibly prevalent.
Well, we’re all hardwired to fear judgment, abandonment and rejection because thousands of years ago, if we were judged or rejected, ultimately abandoned, we were cut off from our tribe and we either starved to death or we were eaten by a saber-toothed It sounds silly, it sounds outdated, but it’s as real as ever today. So any behavior that goes against the grain of what we know, what we’re familiar with has the potential to create tension. And that could lead to rejection, resentment, envy, judgment by our loved ones and get us kicked out.
So really first and foremost now to the action steps is like how is said belief behavior or feeling helping you? Again it is. Where and how is it helping you? And then let’s flip it. Where and how is it hurting you? Well I’m freaking sick and tired of operating from a lack and scarcity mindset, anxiety, stress, like I don’t want to do this anymore. So we get really clear on how it’s helping you, how it’s hurting you, and then through a lens of non-judgmental curiosity.
Where did you learn this? When did you learn this? Why do you think you learned this? And really it’s just a powerful reflection, again, important, through a lens of non-judgmental curiosity of when, why, and how said belief or behavior or feeling or thought pattern came to be. With that, you immense awareness.
and you begin to emotionally desensitize yourself to it because now you’ve contrasted how badly it’s hurt you to what life could be like if you got rid of it. And it’s almost like in this process, you start to take the power back. And through taking the power back comes energy and you can put that energy toward building the new belief or the new behavior you need to align with who you want to become. Hypnosis being the fast track to do all of that.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, and we’re just we’re describing the kind of those building blocks for confidence, too, right? Yeah, we’re we’re we stack these when when all you’ve stacked are limiting beliefs and unhelpful lies you’ve been telling yourself and beliefs all these things when that’s all you’ve stacked, then you’re going you’re at if if you think
Or if you perceive confidence to be on the top of that stack, it’s super fragile, right? The confidence could come crashing down. So we’ve got to strip away all that kind of scaffolding, that house of cards and build up new evidence.
**Paul Salter**
You know what’s interesting though, is like we’re born with two fears. And I’ll connect this back to confidence. Heights and loud noises. Everything else is learned. Confidence often gets eroded or diminished because fear takes over. But here’s the truth. Confidence and fear.
can and should coexist. Because anytime you’re stepping out of your comfort zone into an area of uncertainty or novelty, that’s your just body’s biological response as a scare or a fear reaction.
That’s normal, first and foremost. B, you can still invite confidence in and allow confidence to step into the driver’s seat. You don’t need to let that scared sensation or reaction hang out there. You kick that to the back seat, let confidence take over. I think most people make the mistake that, I’m scared in this situation, know, playing in the club championship, entering any type of golf tournament, and I can’t feel confident, I’m scared. No, like that scared is really just your body saying, hey, like you’re ready, this is exciting. You can choose to view it as fear, excitement, or nerves.
And you can also permit yourself to still experience confidence because as you said, you’ve stacked undeniable proof repeatedly to prepare for this moment.
**Josh Nichols**
that true the the loud noises and heights I had no clue I thought I figured there’d be more innate fears Wow that is crazy I we’re about to have have another so when she’s brand new baby I’m gonna hold her over something really high and see if she no I’m not gonna do that I would never do that that’s a terrible idea but that’s everything else is learned so the art the
**Paul Salter**
That’s all I’ve ever seen. Isn’t that crazy?
**Josh Nichols**
art and process of unlearning is basically all we’re trying to do when we’re trying to reach success.
**Paul Salter**
Perfect, yeah. I often say, like, you know, I don’t hypnotize people, I de-hypnotize them from what the environment, society, their parents has embedded and taught them to feel, believe, or behave in a way.
**Josh Nichols**
Hmm. So the… the…
you you kind of I don’t know if these were your exact words but basically fear is normal there’s nothing wrong with fear so our ultimate goal should not be to eliminate fear
**Paul Salter**
That’s a great question. I’m glad I can clarify that. So actually I…
Ryan Holiday, the modern day Stoic. If you haven’t read any of his books, you’re missing out, you should go do that. But he has this whole breakdown of fear. I’m just looking at my bookshelf. It might be in Courage is Calling is the name of his book. But he talks about the Stoics, obviously. But the Stoics had a word for fear. I’m gonna mispronounce it. It was like fantasai or something. P-H-A-N-T-S-A-I, maybe. But the Stoics, the people who are supposed to be most in control and aware of their emotions, they admitted they had a very keen
between fear and scared. They always said it’s okay to feel scared. Again, that’s a normal sensation and a reaction, but to stay there is a disservice and a disgrace. And the way that I always kind of pictured it, the analogy I use when I speak about it, is the moment you feel scared, it’s like you have a time threshold, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, to feel it and acknowledge it, and then you need to take action.
The longer you delay action, what’s happening is that scared sensation is strengthening to become fear and inevitably you will become stuck or paralyzed in fear, therefore stuck or paralyzed in a state of inaction. So the more quickly you can take action, the better you’ll be able to navigate that natural scared reaction.
**Josh Nichols**
I’ve heard action is the antidote for anxiety, right? So it would be… anxiety sounds like scared and therefore fear having festered and gotten worse over time from not acting. Yeah. So then with golf, you…
**Paul Salter**
Yeah, well said.
**Josh Nichols**
You’re… let’s see. You’re playing a round of golf. You’ve got… you’re playing well. This is a common one. You’ve got the don’t blow it sort of thing going on. You’re on pace to break 80 for the first time or something. Whatever. You’ve got a good round going. And there’s a… you know, maybe you make the birdie that really solidifies. Okay, maybe this is the day. And immediately…
there’s that scared reaction. So then what would be an action to not let that fear fester? What do think?
**Paul Salter**
Fear Fester, I love that. I love alliterations. That’s awesome, thank you. I will use that. First, and this goes to Dr. Joseph Parent, all credit to him. He shared this on my show, but he said, you know, every single hole, the strategy remains the same. To give yourself the best opportunity to make birdie while taking on the minimal amount of risk to do so. Whether you’re three over or three under with three to play, it doesn’t matter. So first, awareness of that.
can be helpful, not always depending on the individual, we both know that. Second is find your breath. Find your breath. What happens in that moment, you you make a birdie on 12 and suddenly your lifetime low is in, or on the horizon, you start to time travel. We are master time travelers. That sucks us out of the present moment. Our mind is racing faster than ever. Our heart rate’s faster than ever. We literally feel the swirling of energy, tightness, or tension in our body. Find your breath.
My favorite breath is the four by eight. In for four seconds through the nose, eight through the mouth with pursed lips like you’re blowing out a candle. Ground yourself back in the present moment. Do it as many times as you need to the rest of the round because if you can do that, you’re grounded, you’re present, you’re able to think more clearly and you’re able to better execute the processes that put you in this position in the first place.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, that’s a phenomenal set of actions to respond to that first gut fear experience. So then, you know…
Is that first gut fear response to that birdie and now you’re in position, you’re doing it, don’t blow it, like is that something we should, like should that not happen?
**Paul Salter**
So I’m gonna get nitpicky for a moment because I believe word choice matters here. That is a fear reaction. And in my mind, a reaction is a pre-programmed unconscious entity. Whereas a response implies a moment of pause, choice, ownership.
So that reaction, I think is incredibly natural and to be expected. And the way it manifests, which most people don’t think they have this issue, but guess what? This is the single biggest issue I work on with the most successful people in the world is fear of success. Because suddenly if you are, let’s say on pace to break 70 with six holes to play.
and you’ve never broken 70, like the weight of expectation, pressure, is that a fluke, am I an imposter, do I deserve this? All these thoughts begin to ruminate in your mind because suddenly the moment you break 70, you perceive that you need to be a different person.
And in truth, you do become a different person when you consistently break 70 versus when you’re not. But just the perception of expectation creates pressure, creates incongruency. And now all of a sudden we invite in fear, worry, doubt, anxiety, and it’s just a…
cluster of terrible negative emotions and obviously we find a way to self implode those final five or six holes. So it’s awareness of course, but then a lot of the deep work is unlearning. Why do you fear success? And we can start to see like, if I break 70, my playing partners might not like me. This goes back to the sense of belonging, fear of judgment. It sounds silly, but again, it is so freaking prevalent.
**Josh Nichols**
Mm-hmm.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, I’ve heard and maybe experienced myself, now all of a sudden you’re that guy, you’re that good player, you’re unrelatable now, and I don’t, I maybe you’re making others look bad, right? So other guys don’t want to play with you because now they feel like an awful golfer in your presence or whatever. there’s, and the thing is that’s
not true almost always, right? We’re making that up, right? So we create these narratives that just aren’t true.
**Paul Salter**
It’s fascinating to me. People spend countless amounts of dollars, time, energy and effort. They want to be better. They want to be better. The moment they might offend somebody, no, I don’t want to be better anymore. And it’s because they have, and I’m guilty of this for the longest time, these people pleasing tendencies. I got to be liked. I got to fit in. You got to get rid of that. You’ve got to shed that. You’ve got to build this Teflon like armor and focus on you. And like you said, like people respect, admire winning success.
And if you ruffle a few feathers, maybe that’s not the people you’re supposed to flock with. I don’t know.
**Josh Nichols**
Well said. Is there a secret to success?
**Paul Salter**
There is. Fall in love with executing the same boring, monotonous action steps over and over and over, regardless of how you feel.
**Josh Nichols**
Right, so it’s not so secret. Yeah. Right? Yeah, all these S’s. So then it’s, you know, we get this vibe from different gurus, you know, maybe myself or you at times or whatever, you know, in our first episode, again, I was listening back to it and you mentioned a book.
and I’ve got it right here, The Code of the Extraordinary Mind. And at the time you said it’s one of your most gifted books, Vision, Lacciani. I haven’t read it, you you get this sense that Vision is like, there’s this way of succeeding that people don’t know about.
but I know about. So you need to read further in my book and you can know it. So, you know, as opposed to he comes out in the first sentence and says, do the boring things consistently and with intention and focus and you’ll, you’ll succeed. So that, and that’s why I ask about this. Is there a secret? And I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t even know if this is a question. I’m just, I wanted you to wrap on it.
**Paul Salter**
Yeah, no, I like that because I can obviously I’ve read the book many times vision hints at kind of already what we talked about, which is beautiful and that like society has brainwashed us. He calls them rules. B-R-U-L-E-S these bullshit rules that have been we’ve been brainwashed with about, you know, think about this, like the definition and an example of average, ordinary or normal in the U.S.
is overweight, out of shape, unhappy, broke and stressed. Yet we’re conditioned to think we want to be normal, we want to fit in. Because again, we’re hardwired to belong. like something I’ve been chewing on a lot lately is just like the word outstanding.
Everyone says, I want to be outstanding at golf and business as a parent, whatever it is. But if you flip it, outstanding means to stand out. shit. Standing out is scary because again, we’re separate from our tribe. So there’s a price that needs to be paid to be outstanding. You can take that whatever direction you want. But like for me, I have, I’ve started to where, where my mind’s gone with this. I’m glad you gave me a chance to rap on this is basically like, if you want to
achieve next level success, you need to recognize you’re playing a different game. You’re playing by a different set of rules or guidelines. There’s different characters. There’s different, you know, features, environments. And in this version of the game that you aspire to be the hero in, you might come across as the villain in somebody else’s game. And you need to be okay with that.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, that’s that. That’s those rules, where the we’ve we’ve come up with these assumptions that and, maybe they’re true. Like you said, you might be the villain, someone else’s story, right? In order for Scottie Scheffler to become the number one golfer in the world, Rory has to become the number two, right? So in a way, Scottie is the villain in Rory’s story, right?
whereas Scotty is the hero in his own story and Rory is the villain or whatever. there’s, you have to like that exists. That’s not,
That’s not, you’re not making that up, but you, you have to have a better relationship with how do I interpret that rule and how can I, make it not a limiting rule, but instead maybe a motivating one or I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah.
**Paul Salter**
like where you’re going. think there’s two ways to approach it. Number one, you can soften it instead of a rigid rule, it’s a guideline. But I think most importantly, you have to just fucking challenge it. Like, is that true? You might’ve been told your whole life that it is true, but when you look at it with more experience from a different perspective, and again, I come back to that non-judgmental lens of curiosity, is it true?
Does it apply to me? Does it serve me? How does it help me? How does it hurt me? And you get an opportunity to poke holes in and dismantle it or through that experience, like, like, yeah, this actually has helped me. It’s served me. It’s guided me, whatever it may be. But again, reflection and curiosity are your superpowers here.
**Josh Nichols**
Did hear Scotty’s press conference where he’s talking about not being satisfied with results and stuff? Did you hear that one? Yeah, exactly. Right. Like you win and what’s for dinner. So I don’t know. What are your takeaways from that kind of line of thinking of, you know, this is not a fulfilling life, right? This, if you look for your, if you put your identity in this, you won’t be satisfied. how do you interpret or
Did you like that? Do you disagree? What do you think about that?
**Paul Salter**
That’s a great question. I just, I really just wrapped up a podcast with Scott Fawcett and we talked about this very minimally, but he, he and I agreed on, on this in particular, just like.
that demonstrates so much wisdom and maturity. And we came at this previously talking about meditation and Scottie’s never openly said he meditates. And we talked about how some people have a dark side. You kind of hinted at there’s a villain and a hero. People use that as fuel. I think we can both assume Rory is using the fact that he’s number two and Scottie keeps winning his fuel in some capacity. So maybe Scottie, I don’t know this obviously, maybe he leans on his faith. But when I heard him say that,
You know, I come at like winning in competition from a perspective of it’s everything. I love to win and I’ll create false narratives and kind of go a little dark to help me lock in and focus to give me every chance to win.
We’ve never really seen that side of Scotty. Scotty comes across as just this incredibly well-mannered, kind, genuine human being. And I have no doubt that he is all of those things. I guess in hearing him say that, I understand what he’s saying. It just leaves me more curious. Like, then what fuels you? think that’s like the second piece of the conversation I wish we had. I think it’s a beautiful representation of being so committed to a craft and recognizing there’s more to life than golf. I mean, he’s clearly a loving, devoted husband.
and father, he cherishes time with his family and friends in his close circle. I think we all need to take that from that conversation away. There’s more to life than golf. And that’s something he literally pours his whole entire life into. I would just want to follow up like, okay, I hear what you’re saying. I understand what you’re saying. So what drives you? Was there a moment, story, false or true?
Michael Jordan’s famous for creating false narratives to drive himself. What drives Scotty? I’d love to hear more about that. It left me with more questions than answers.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, it’s like, okay, if that’s true, then why keep practicing? Why keep playing? You’ve made a bajillion dollars. Why don’t you just stop?
**Paul Salter**
Yeah!
Yeah, yeah, just so many more questions. What was your take?
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I find myself loving it because I have, I had a very similar experience, obviously on a much, much smaller scale, but you know, I, I’m, I met my then girlfriend, now wife, like a few months before the U S mid am that I made it to the finals. And I, I like,
I won like the first couple of tournaments right after I met her and and it was it wasn’t just revisionist history of like, yep, see that happened. Therefore, like it’s correlated to this. I remember it in the moment how I how much I kind of let let go of my grasp of the game and let go of my grasp of results when I met her, when we would talk. And I finally had something else to pay attention to then.
golf right and my life was not that way for the longest time it was very individualistic very selfish and you know all I care about is is getting better at golf that’s that is literally my identity that’s all that matters to me but now this person’s in my life and at the very least it’s now you know 70 % golf and 30 % percent her but I think it was even more it was probably 50 50 or
70 % her and 30 % golf all of a sudden now defining my love, where my love was pointing. And that release of results kind of finally allowed me to actually play the way that I was capable of playing. So when Scottie says something like, yeah, don’t, you know, if you’re looking for your identity or you’re looking for satisfaction in golf or in results, you will
you’ll come up empty, right? If you’re trying to fill the void with golfer results, it won’t ultimately satisfy. So by letting go of needing these results, you make losing more acceptable. So now you’re not playing with fear of losing anymore, right? So yeah, it frees you up. So now you’re not…
You’re not guiding it down the fairway so that I don’t lose. You’re saying, you know what, I could win or lose. It doesn’t matter. So I might as well just swing away.
**Paul Salter**
So let me ask you a question.
Do you believe you can reach that next level of success and live a balanced life?
**Josh Nichols**
Mmm.
mean, Scottie seems to be like, seems to be doing that. You know, I don’t know other sports that well. The next one in golf is like Tiger, or Rory, or Brooks, or Jordan Spieth. Jordan seems to be doing it well. Brooks maybe didn’t. And these are all like, okay, tell me.
**Paul Salter**
Sad argue though, but Jordan ever since he started having kids, like, game hasn’t all really been there to be candid.
**Josh Nichols**
Yep, right. True. Once he got more balanced out in his life, once his focus was spread out, then he stopped playing so well. so then maybe Rory… he seems to be more golf-focused and more results-driven. I mean, the way he broke down at the end of the Masters was like, this is everything. Like, this is my life.
If I hadn’t won this, I would be less of a person. But winning this, I’m finally the person that I want to be or wanted to become. Right. I’m complete now. So his identity was clearly coupled with golf and he’s a great golfer. Right. So it’s not like that has hurt him. So, you know, and then there’s like Roger Federer and you get the vibe of, he seems to be a balanced guy. don’t, I don’t know much about it. Right. And
**Paul Salter**
Yeah, that’s a good example. That’s a good example.
**Josh Nichols**
Tom Brady maybe seems to be a pretty level-headed guy. So I don’t know the nuances of it, but I mean, Scotty seems to be… Okay, do you think that Scotty is playing well until he gets ultimately balanced? Like, do you think he’s, because he’s still hanging on to what, like, a little bit of like, this matters too much to me, that’s why he’s doing well right now?
**Paul Salter**
That’s a great question. For me, personally in my life, I’ve struggled with this whole notion of balance. Even just from my career, I love what I do. Has it gotten in the way of relationships in the past and even been one of my biggest challenges with fatherhood? Absolutely. I guess I’m in the camp of like, doesn’t exist. It’s not 50-50 family and career or sports.
It requires a level of obsession, a level of selfishness. I think what’s more important is having the right people in your circle that understand and support that. mean, clearly it seems that we keep using Scotty as an example. His wife’s name is Meredith. Incredibly supportive and understanding in every way it seems. I don’t know them, but it just seems that’s what that’s what social media and the internet’s telling me. It’s gotta be true. But like I think like in the past,
I, and again, not to get too personal, but I’m happy to, it’s like, I’ve held back on my obsession with what I do and my goals as a way to people please get women to even like me, because it’s like, I don’t wanna be that standout guy who’s just so career obsessed. But the moment I started owning that, the moment I started like, this is who I am, this is where I’m at, this is where I’m going, you’re either here or you’re not, like.
It might be hard at first, but suddenly you start to see it’s a filter. It attracts the right people, it repels the wrong people, and then you get the right people on your team, and suddenly you’re able to go faster and further. And that’s, think, where we all aspire to be.
**Josh Nichols**
Mmm.
Yeah, that’s that is interesting. And you mentioned Ryan Holiday. I was I was watching a podcast with him recently and he said, these different facets of your life, it there’s they’re all so important career family for Scotty Faith for, you know, golf as part of our lives. They’re they’re in tension with each other, but that that tension needs to exist because it doesn’t let you go.
so far off to, you know, where has Paul gone? Because we haven’t seen him in three months because he’s just locked himself in his office working because he’s so passionate about it. There’s got to be that tension to pull you back towards center, right? To kind of bounce back and forth. whether it’s balance as like, you know, if you have the pie chart, you
most might think of balance as like every pie, every piece of pie is identical at, in, in size and percentage, but that’s not how life works. They, they flex, they get bigger, they get smaller, they get bigger, they get smaller. And you know, on Mondays, my, the pie of work is bigger and the pie of family is smaller and the pie of golf is non-existent. So that though they flex over time and
on any given day. being rigid with you need to be balanced. needs to be 33%, 33%, 33%. That’s not real, probably.
**Paul Salter**
Here’s another perspective. I’ve been studying a lot of Tim Grover lately, know, Kobe and MJ’s per…
coach reading and rereading and listening to winning his courses. But the analogy he uses, like he hates the word balance. Obviously he’s all for like team obsession and whatnot. But he, when he talks about balance, he talks about like a literal scale and like balancing a scale. What’s it say? Zero. You have zero. If you live a balanced life. And I always thought that was a really powerful analogy. Like, huh. Yeah, that’s really interesting. And he’s all about like, you have to prioritize, like you were alluding to different aspects. You can do that on the micro and the macro level and like
Balanced might be 90-10, whatever those two variables are you’re shifting your energy and attention from, but 50-50 or this ideal state of balance yields zero or nothing.
**Josh Nichols**
Hmm. So then…
can, you know, if we’re talking about flexing pieces of the pie chart.
Does it, do you think it needs to be more like whatever you’re doing, it’s 100 % you are wherever you currently are. needs to be 100 % as opposed to I’m kind of always keeping myself in this. you know, as I’m, as I’m here talking to you, we’re recording a podcast. I’ve put my computer on, do not disturb. My, my wife could be going into labor right now and I might not know it.
Right? Let’s hope not. Please. Please let’s hope not. But like truly I have, I have put this 100%. Right? There’s zero balance right now. Right? I’m away from my son and my wife and I’m not playing golf and that’s by choice. Right? I’m choosing to be 100 % here to be intentionally not balanced.
**Paul Salter**
That’s a great perspective and an example. I keep coming back to the words intentionality and presence and choice. Underneath all of that is less is more. So let’s use you and I, can say significant others, fatherhood, golf in our businesses, or probably, I don’t want to speak for you, but all we have the bandwidth for at this moment.
There’s probably days where we want more of one than the other. But when we are with one, we do our very best to remove all distractions. I mean, I know for me, when it’s just me and my son, I put my phone on do not disturb. I put it away unless I need just to be able to hear it. But I keep it out of arm’s length so I can be with him. Am I perfect? No. But similar to you, when I’m here with you, or clients phones not even in this room and it’s on do not disturb because I want to bring all of my energy and attention to you. You’re the most important thing to me. So I think that’s a way to bring, you know,
100 % to every moment. And if we extrapolate that, it’s it’s block scheduling throughout the day, you know, something I do that many people do as well as like the first few hours of my day on non gym days are my get shit done time. Like there’s no phone, there’s no email, there’s no social phones on airplane mode. And we’ve got the to do list done the night before so we can just hit the ground running. It’s uninterrupted time.
And the more we can have uninterrupted time to focus on what we deem most important in that given block, whether it’s a 10 minute block or a four hour block, we can live a more fulfilling and also a more successful life.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, that’s good. I subscribe to the time blocking. I struggle with it. But if you think about it like a round of golf, like this block of four to six hours is for golf. if within that round of golf is sprinkled in with you’re pulling out your phone to get some work done, answer some emails, your ringer’s on, so you’re pulled right out of the round.
Focus wise and you know, you’re you’re thinking about I supposed to do that or you know I hope my wife’s not mad at me for staying here too long or something so your Your your mind is all these other places instead of 100 % here. So you’re You’re you’re playing golf worse and you’re all these things that you’re worried about they’re either being done worse or You’re just thinking about them. You’re not doing them, right? You’re just the fact that I’m just wondering if my
wife is angry at me for being here too long doesn’t make her happier, right? It doesn’t address our relationship. It’s just me being annoyed or me being ruminating and maybe she is frustrated. But the idea is if I’m here, balance looks like I am 100 % here so that I can be 100 % there when I get to that one, right? When I
when you’re with your son, can be 100%. You can turn the phone on, not disturb, airplane mode, whatever, because you’ve checked all the boxes. don’t need to have the phone on still.
**Paul Salter**
I don’t think I ever would have guessed we would have talked to this much about like family and dating but I think it’s so important to point that out because
At least I always say golf is nothing more than a mirror of your own personal development. It goes into your business, your marriage, or your relationship, your fatherhood, motherhood, whatever that may be. Going one step further too, Josh, like we can then further block out a round of golf. You can bring a different intention to your warmup and then we could go every three holes as another individual block. And all that does is give you an intentional opportunity to reflect, reset, and refocus before the next block.
**Josh Nichols**
That’s good. So, so back onto the identity thing. If you’re, you know, Kobe or MJ or maybe Rory in our example of, I, my identity, I have to be good at this thing for me to be satisfied or filled up or happy or whatever it is. I have to be, I have to be good at this or I am less of a person. Does that.
does that lead to…
better performance or does there need to be a level of acceptance of failure? Is acceptance of failure like you should not like Tiger, I wouldn’t play this tournament if I wasn’t trying to win it. Like failure is not an option. does that, is that a bad relationship with failure?
**Paul Salter**
think it depends on how you define failure. I subscribe and I know you do too. Failure is nothing more than a learning opportunity, which when acted upon becomes a catalyst for growth. I think you only fail if you truly quit. So the definition is important. I think again, what comes to mind is like if your identity is wrapped up in how you score or perform, it can be a source of productive fuel.
If you don’t have the right people in your corner, it quickly goes from being a superpower to your kryptonite.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, yeah having the support structure that’s that’s key
**Paul Salter**
I mean, yeah, like at Kobe was such a devoted father, husband, know, he had a little blimp in the radar in his younger years. But aside from that, like he was such a family man and it was evident that that recharged him.
And actually Tim Grover, his coach used to say like the most challenging aspect of working with Kobe was the dude just wouldn’t stop working. He always wanted to work. But I know that when he did from what I’ve read and learned is like he was just immensely present and enjoying his time with his family and they got it. Dad was up at 4 a.m. putting up shots because dad had a mission, a purpose and they understood that.
**Josh Nichols**
Yeah, they supported him and I’m sure when he wasn’t playing golf or playing basketball practicing, he was all there because he’s the type of person who would be all there and wherever he is. again, the the best way to be all there is to have been all there with all the other stuff. Right?
**Paul Salter**
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that comes down to communication too. Like I think one of the mistakes, I’m guilty of making this a thousand times. Like if you’re someone who’s really resonating with what Josh and I are saying, like communicate your goals fearlessly, authentically to your significant other, whoever needs to hear them. Because all that does is set a clear expectation.
allows them to make an informed decision and creates an opportunity for you to grow closer and work together or part ways. And I’m not suggesting, you you end a marriage or anything like that, but just that communication is vital for keeping whoever you need to communicate with and you on the same page.
**Josh Nichols**
Well everyone listening believe it not this is a golf podcast so as as hard as that has been to tell maybe over the last hour But bring us home bring us home on your own Relationship with the game obviously your life is has taken some turns since our last episode a year ago But yeah, where are you at with golf person?
**Paul Salter**
Yeah, the golf Q2, so what are we in? We’re in July when you and I are recording. Q2 was really good to me. Handicap came down from like a 23 to a 15. I started feeling like a golfer, finally. I learned a lot about myself the first six months of the year from a golf perspective after taking 16 or whatever years off. So my golf game personally is trending in the right direction. Looking forward to building off of that, continuing to put the pedal to the metal to get down to five by the end of the year.
and just thoroughly enjoying the people I’m meeting, know, online and in person. the golf, game of golf has been so good to me personally, professionally. I’m just immensely grateful.
**Josh Nichols**
Hmm, that’s awesome. So professionally speaking, where would you send people? What do want to share with people? This has been an awesome. I have no doubt people are more interested in Paul Salter after this than they were before this. So I don’t know if that’s a compliment or an insult, but either way, you’ve got stuff that you share. So what would you share with people?
**Paul Salter**
Yeah, and I don’t, maybe I should do more dating and relationship advice. No, I’m just kidding. Don’t take that from me. The Scratch Golfers Mindset podcast is definitely the place to hang out with me. Josh has been kind enough to join me for two incredible conversations and then the Golf Hypnotherapist on Instagram or thegolfhypnotherapist.com.
**Josh Nichols**
Yep, I love it. And all the stuff you put out is evident of your 100 % focus and passion for what you do. So Paul brings the heat every time we interact, whether it’s for a podcast or just emailing. You feel it through the email. So Paul, this has been awesome. It’s always good talking to you. Thank you so much.
**Paul Salter**
Yeah, thank you, dude, an absolute pleasure.
