Podcast Transcript
Josh Nichols
People think the hardest part of leaving professional sports is the goodbye. It’s not. It’s the silence that follows. So tell me about that silence.
Steve Wheatcroft
Perfect. Fire away, man. It’s your show.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah, it was, I thought the hardest part was going to be walking away from the game. I remember playing my last hole on the PGA tour was the 18th hole at, was at Sedgfield at the Wyndham championship. And I knew that was basically, you know, I was going to have to try to get back to the tour at some point, but that was probably going to be my last hole.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Of course, I made a sloppy double bogey up around the green and just like, yep, they’re sending me off in style here. And, I had a hard time with it. I had a hard time with the weeks leading up to it, just because I knew it was probably coming to an end.
Although that being said, I thought I was going to be done about 10 times before that. And I just kept finding different ways to get out there. So never say never, but I had a pretty good idea at that point. And, yeah, so I struggled with it a little bit at the time. And I went back and played a full season on the corn fairy, but, it was the, know, it took me a couple of years after that, after I got out of golf. So I retired in basically September of 2019. And about six months later, I was watching golf one day and my wife’s like, Hey, are you, do you miss this like crazy? was like, actually I don’t at all.
Like it’s, weird. Like I don’t miss it even a little bit. thought I was really going to hate it, but I didn’t miss it. I think I just, I mean, I knew it was good for me personally that I knew that I was okay with.
the way I went out, you know, I retired on my own terms. A lot of people get forced out of the game or most people get forced out of the game in golf. And I could have gone back and I asked full corn very tour status with COVID. ended up in heavenly, leaving like 35 starts on the table, which I never used any of them. And a lot of people would have killed for those. And they thought I was crazy for hanging it up. was like, look, if you don’t have the fire and the passion and the drive to do this anymore, you’re going to get lapped by these young kids, plain and simple. And I just didn’t have that fire anymore. And, and I knew about six months later that it was okay. And it was good.
good that I walked away when I did because I didn’t want to be that guy that was hanging on forever and just trying to sneak into tournaments and Monday qualifying and just burning through my family’s bank accounts and but yeah it was the it was the silence that came a few years later where it’s like you realize that you’re not that person anymore and you’re not that
Steve Wheatcroft
You know, I never knew that, you know, I didn’t need the game of golf. needed that persona of who I was more than I knew I needed it. And that’s where it led me down some dark roads. And I’m sure we’ll get into that here in the podcast as well. But yeah, that’s where the silence really crept in is when the phone stopped calling and people stopped asking about your career and people stop, you know, then I got into the sales side of things with, you know, the financial world and whether it’s insurance investments and people dodging your phone calls versus people calling you. And it was, it was a very, I.
for me and something that I wasn’t prepared for.
Josh Nichols
So the silence was kind of, it was less about not playing golf, it was more about not being the golfer.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah, yeah, like I’d been Steve the golfer since I was 14 years old, probably, or somewhere around there. I was always, you know, I wasn’t a great player by any means. but people knew that’s what I did. And then I was decent at it. And, know, when I went to school in Indiana, then I saw it and I started to have a little bit of a breakout.
started to get better. And then I was definitely Steve the golfer, you know, like, he’s doing some good things at Indiana. He’s actually all big 10 and always going to try to play professionally. my God. That’s amazing. That’s so cool. And you know, you’re Steve the golfer and you know, we’ve moved a couple different times here in Jacksonville, Ponder Vida area. And every time we’d move, it’s like, you’re the golfer, right? Like, yep, I’m the golfer. It’s just like, that’s who I was known as. And,
You know, just like anything else, If you’re a professional athlete of any kind, it’s kind of a cool thing. It sounds cool, right? So people are like, you’re you played on the PGA tour. That’s pretty cool. But that’s all they really know you as right. They don’t know you as a person. They don’t know who you are as an individual. They just know that you played golf professionally. And I think that that having that persona, just having that, you know, feeling a little bit better about myself just for what I did and what I had accomplished.
I never knew how much that meant to me until it was gone and I realized it was gone. And then I just started waking up feeling like I was a worthless piece of crap.
Even though like my, my whole, like my soul hadn’t changed. My body hadn’t changed my, you know, my, my mind hadn’t changed that much. Nothing had changed physically, but in my own brain, I just started going down the spiral of like, man, you’re just, you’re not any good anymore. Like you don’t, what are you here for? Like, what are you accomplishing in this world? Like you don’t bring value to this world. And all I did was hit a golf ball before, right? I didn’t do anything special. I did a job just like anybody else does, but I tied all my self worth to that part of my life. And,
Steve Wheatcroft
You know, I, realize now that that’s the worst thing I could have ever done is tie tying yourself worth to your job and what you do. And it’s not who you are, but I didn’t know that at the time.
Josh Nichols
Right, so when you say like the you were watching it on tv or something and your wife said do you miss this you said not at all that What didn’t you miss?
Steve Wheatcroft
I didn’t miss the travel. didn’t miss trying to grind out cuts. I didn’t miss staying in hotel rooms, 35 weeks a year. I didn’t miss, FaceTime me my kids during birthday parties when I should have been there as a dad, but I couldn’t because I was so far down on the money list that I had to go try to make a cut and provide some dollars for our family. I don’t, I didn’t miss the mental grind of, my God, I feel so good about this week. I feel like I’m playing great golf and then shooting a couple of 75s and packing up the car and trying to figure out what the hell was next.
it’s a very taxing isolated lifestyle that you live out there on the tour and I’m ready to watch this full swing and they see, you know, JT and Jordan on the private jets or, you know, traveling from week to week, driving their Mercedes around. mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s a, it can be the most glamorous lifestyle you’d ever want. I mean, you’re playing the game you love for a living. And there’s a lot of guys out there that are really, really good at it they’re getting paid accordingly. unfortunately, you know, I was.
I was the journeyman that was kind of hanging on. I didn’t make a ton of money on tour. mean, it
You know, at the end of the day, if you break it all down after taxes and what you made per year and all this stuff, I didn’t make any money while I played golf. was a really cool experience. But, yeah, I just, I didn’t miss that after a while it becomes a job and I’ll tell that I tell all the college kids is now it’s like, enjoy the game while you have it because you love the game for what it is. And eventually there will become a time when you’re a professional that you start to hate the game a little bit and it becomes a job and it becomes taxing and it’s not.
You know, the most I ever loved the game was probably when I was in high school, college, even mini tours when I had no money traveling, living out of a car, because it was something pure still about the game, right? It wasn’t a job. You didn’t feel like you had to go do the work. And then after a while, it’s like, yeah, I have to go practice today. I have to go do this because this is my job and this is what I’m supposed to be doing.
Steve Wheatcroft
That’s why I give the guys that are, you know, a ton of credit that are 48, 49, 50 years old. That still have that full blown passion for the game. Like they’ve dying to go hit golf balls. And I saw Lee Trevino yesterday on the father son, giving a speech about how much he loves the game of golf. And he’d be on the range, you know, living on the range of it. If they could put a pillow and a sleeping bag out there for him and you know, God bless him, man. That just wasn’t for me. And, uh, you know, I got, I got burnt out, I guess.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, man, it’s just crazy to try to find the balance or to try to put a finger on, okay, yeah, this is the love of my life, this game, and I want to get better, and in order to get better, I have to show up even when I don’t want to, which makes it feel job-like. Like, that’s…
Steve Wheatcroft
Mm-hmm.
Josh Nichols
maybe the idea or the definition of a pro or professional is kind of showing up with your best no matter how you feel or no matter what your circumstances are around you. So how can you feel that way where I don’t want to do this but I’ve got to because I need to get better but also don’t make it a job? How do you find that balance?
Steve Wheatcroft
The one thing I’ve learned is that I was a poor practicer. And I think that so many people are poor practicers because they think that, okay, it’s my job. I need to go do this. I need to get better. I missed two cuts in a row, three cuts in a row. I need to go figure something out. So they go stand on the range. They beat balls for our hour hour, like one, you know, just dump the big bucket out and let’s go to work, right? Throw some headphones on work on things. And, that’s not
the best way to go about it right all that proves that i could sweat on a driving range in ponte vedra in the summertime right
Did I get better? Maybe, but probably not. It probably hit a point after an hour that I’m like, I’m just doing repetitive movements here to do repetitive movements. Maybe I’m working in bad habits, good habits, whatnot, but I see some of the best guys in the world and the way they do it and they go and they practice and they focus on what they need to focus on, right? And that’s it. Like I’m gonna go work on, you my driver’s been terrible. I need to go really focus on the driver, but I’m only gonna focus for about 45 minutes and really put in some solid work, right? I’m not gonna stand there for four hours,
Josh Nichols
you
Steve Wheatcroft
I practice next to Vijay Singh. Vijay is a different animal. He does, he lives in his own world, but I don’t know too many guys that’ll stand out there and pound drivers for four or five hours and walk away from the session thing and like, yep, nailed it. I got it. Right. But I think that there’s a, there’s a time and a place where you’re just wasting time on the range. And I think that you need to get away from the game. If you don’t feel like practicing, don’t practice that day. Like you’re better off not going and, or, or go there and try it. And if you’re, like, yeah, this is pointless. Then get out of there.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Josh Nichols
don’t make yourself work through it. There’s too many times where I would go there and like just not want to be there. My head wasn’t in the right place. And it’s not even a physical thing. It’s a mental thing, right? You just don’t want to go through the grind.
So that’s what I would learn to practice better. I would learn to, you know, I did this with Q school one time we’re working with some of the Onika Sorenstein girls and I had a great call, you know, a couple of weeks ago with one of them. There’s going to the, the LAT Q school. And she was asking my thoughts on Q school. Cause I’d been there a thousand times and I’ve gotten through it a few times. And I said, the best thing I ever learned was the first year I went to corn fairy Q school and I stood on the range all day and I practiced and I went to the trailers and I met every rep out there and I met the agents and I was just there.
I was just on property doing something and by the time the third day out of six finished. I was exhausted Mentally, I was fried. I had nothing in the tank for those last three rounds And it showed I finished like a hundred and tenth and then the next year somebody had told me like when you get done like go play nine whole practice rounds That’s it And then when you get done with your round whether it’s good or bad If you want to go to the range take 20 golf balls count them all out put 20 golf balls there work on what you need to work on and then go home put your feet up watch TV
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
and check out.
So I did that the very next year and it’s funny, I was in a hundred and whatever 10th place going into the fourth round. had three rounds to go and shut 65, 65, 67 and finished seventh. And I was like, man, I could have played 54 more holes after that. Cause I was fresh. Right. And I, I kept my energy throughout the week. But again, that goes back to the practice. You’re, know, your question about it is I think that if I had practiced better and more efficiently and you know, when you want to be there, put the time,
When you don’t want to be there, get away from it. but that keeps you fresher longer. And that way you don’t look at it so much like a job, like, Hey, I have to go hit golf balls for five hours today. I have to go chip for three hours today. Like you don’t have to do any of that stuff. I chose to do that. And it probably wasn’t the best thing for me.
Josh Nichols
How did you get so good at golf?
Steve Wheatcroft
lot of hard work a lot of the stuff I just talked about where I would just stand there and practice when I actually loved it
Josh Nichols
Right.
Steve Wheatcroft
I’ll be honest. I sucked in high school. Like I was terrible. I had no business. mean, I was averaging 78 probably we played nine hole, nine hole events outside of in Pittsburgh area. And I was averaging 39 points something. So, I mean, I’m averaging 78 for 18 holes. That doesn’t get you anything anymore. Right? These kids are winning a JGA events. They’re winning all these junior events. I couldn’t even get into an age, a GA event, right? That’s how terrible I was. And, um, I just begged the golf coach at Indiana for a walk on trial, even though I knew I had no business being
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
there and he told me no six times and then finally said fine I’ll cut you after six months so that’s the only reason I even got to go to a D1 school
Um, and I went through with the whole mission of just get a business degree, get into the sports world, probably as a club pro somewhere. And, uh, when I got there, I just piggybacked off of a, you know, second team, all American that we had on the team that he was really, really good player and just finished low am at the U S open and beat tiger. um, I was like, whatever he does, I’m going to do. And I watched his practice routine and I watched different devices that he’d use. I’d watch alignment sticks. mean, I’d pick his brain. Um, when nobody wanted to play in the winter time, cause there was snow on the ground.
You know, he’d call me up cause he knew I was dumb enough to go out there with him and I’d always lose money or a lot of times I’d lose money to him. the occasional time I would beat him, I’d talk trash immediately just so he’d call me again. but again, it’s like, gotta put yourself in the fire, so to speak, and play with the best players and learn from them. It’s like, okay, if this guy’s really good, what does he do that I don’t do? Like we’re, built similar. Like we’re both, mean, we got two legs, two arms, and we swing a golf club. Like, what does he do better than I do? It’s that simple. And is his,
Is his brain working better than mine? Is his golf swing better than mine? But I learned all the time. And I worked my butt off when I was at Indiana. And my coaches would tell you the same thing. They loved my work ethic enough, they kept me around, and then all of sudden, things started to click. And I started to get some confidence with it.
Josh Nichols
you
Steve Wheatcroft
I just, worked my butt off, but I really enjoyed the process of working hard at it. I think there was probably a good thing that I stunk growing up because I didn’t practice that much and I didn’t put that much mental focus into it. Cause I was always playing baseball or basketball or different sports, right? I have, my mind was all over the place. So when I actually did focus on it and I started to watch other players and like try to learn how I could get better. That stretch of time was.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
by far my best development but i love doing the whole thing i love the process of learning about my own brain my learning about my putting stroke what worked under pressure what didn’t
And then after a while, like I said, it just becomes a job and it becomes frustrating. And it’s, it’s hard when you get a family, um, it’s easy to do when you’re traveling single, right? Cause you’re just by yourself. You’re living your best life. doesn’t matter what you’re doing, but when you have a wife and kids, then all of a sudden you have responsibilities that you want to be home for. Uh, which means you don’t want to be on the road, which means you don’t want to be out practicing all day because your son wants to throw baseball with you or something. Like it’s those things that start to wear on you mentally. So then all of a sudden practice becomes, do I want to be here? Like, do I actually want to be here for?
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
eight hours today. Um, but you, feel like you’d need to be because you’ve got the, the Justin Thomas is in Jordan Speets that are coming up and they’re 23, 24 years old. They’re hungry is can be to take your spot on the tour. So you feel like you need to do the work, but so it’s, it’s definitely a fine balance, but I was definitely not the.
The great golfer and I still, you know, it’s a, it’s a hard balancing act for me because I know how hard it is to get to the PGA tour. And it’s even harder to play seven years on the PGA tour and another seven on the corn fairy. It’s such a small, minute, you know, population of the world that’ll ever do that.
But I still don’t give myself credit for it. You know, I can go out and shoot 62 tomorrow and it’s like, it was a fun round of golf where it’s, you know, life changer for some people. They’re like, Oh my God, it’s a great day in my life. And it’s like, I don’t know. I just, I played well. made some putts. I don’t know, but I take it for granted a lot too. Um, but I’ll never, you know, after playing with the best players in the world, I I’m like, I’m still not there. I still wasn’t there. mean, I went toe to toe with Dustin Johnson. It was the best player in the world in 2016. were paired together in the final round at Canada. And I was like, that’s the one pairing I did.
didn’t want when they were all starting to shake up. And I was like, Snedeker was near the top. was an amateur near the top. like, I’m fine playing with all these guys. I’d be comfortable out there. And then sure enough, a kid makes a putt on the last hole to get in the last group. I get Dustin Johnson. I’m like best player in the world just won the U S open. All the limelight is going to be on him. Like, I don’t want that pairing. And I mean, I’ll be honest. I drummed him for 15 holes and I let my head get in the way on the last three. He didn’t. And he beat me by one on the day, but I went toe to toe with the
player in the world and you think I would have gained some confidence out of that and I really didn’t. But that was always my my issues I was always self-deprecating and I didn’t have that belief in myself so that was just another example of it.
Josh Nichols
When you, yeah, you just said it there and I wanted to ask you about this specifically. You said that was always my issue is that I was self-deprecating and maybe never really believed in yourself. But I wondered if you, if that almost made you better and it kind of maybe took pressure off of you to, you you kind of like, yeah, I just, I kind of suck. So who cares, right?
Steve Wheatcroft
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
No, did. Yeah. Yep. It was the, it was the best thing and the worst thing for me. Cause I was very hard on myself.
Josh Nichols
Right.
Steve Wheatcroft
Because I thought I should have been better but then it’s like at the same time like I whatever I suck anyway And so I could chalk it up So I tell people all the time because they always ask is my mind was always one of the most powerful things that I had out there Right. Most people would have quit ten times doing what I did, but I just was you know Get back up. Let’s try it again And I said you either have to be dumb enough to not understand the moment or you have to be strong enough mentally that you can get over things and I was always really good at getting over things so that probably goes back to which you know your point there of Hey, look, I wasn’t supposed to be here anyway, so and I’ve been working my
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
whole life or fighting my whole life to get back up off the canvas, so to speak. But like, what’s one more time I got this in me. you know, did this year go as planned? Did this tournament go as planned? No, not at all. It was a, you know, I gagged at home. I choked this one away or I did something. well, they gave me a spot next week. So let’s go try it again. Right. And,
Yeah, it’s a, it was definitely a fine line where it probably did fuel me to keep me out there, but it also probably helped me back from really excelling when the good golf took over. I think that at some point I need to go, I just shot 62 in a PJ Torment. I’m leading like now it’s time to run away with this thing and show them how good you really are. Like I was never that guy. was like,
Josh Nichols
you
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Let’s just see what happens. You know, the one tournament I did win in Maryland, I won by 12, but on the back nine, when I had a nine shot lead and the guy made a birdie putt to get it to eight and I had a 20 footer for par. remember thinking, my God, if I miss this, it’s down to seven and freaking out when I had five holes to go. Like that’s how mental golfers are. Like you can’t choke or you can’t get up. You know, seven shot lead with five holes to go in. And you’re worried about that when you’re 20, whatever I was 27 under par at the time.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
So, I mean, we’re all just, we’re all a little goofy and messed up in the head, but, um, yeah, it’s just, I don’t know, man, you gotta find what works for you out there and what doesn’t work for you. So I wish that I had a little more confidence in myself, but I don’t know. Who knows? Maybe I got more out of myself than I was supposed to, or maybe I got less. I I’ll never know. And nobody has that answer. So it’s a guessing game.
Josh Nichols
Right. Yeah, as I’m reading the book, which we’ll talk about more, but that’s what kept recurring to me was, or occurring to me was you, how many times you were gonna quit and almost as if the reason why you played better was because you were going to quit. it was hard to tell to your
Steve Wheatcroft
Mm.
Josh Nichols
to your kind of conundrum there, it, did I hold myself back or did I allow myself to freely play? It’s hard to know.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep. Yeah. I just, I, I think I just took it from the beginning as I’m not supposed to be doing this anyway. So this is going to be, mean, even when I came out in college, the only reason I even turned pro is because everybody else was turning pro around me that I’d been beating for four years and they weren’t any good. So if they weren’t any good and I was beating them, maybe I should be trying this. So I was like, I’ll try it for a year. And if it doesn’t work out, Oh, well, um, keeps me out of the job market for a year. you know,
Josh Nichols
Right.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
That’s fine. I don’t mean, I don’t need to be working at nine to five quite yet, but yeah, it just, kept going with every year was like a new experience. And, it was like, was,
It was almost like a one, they were just consecutive one year experiments. just did 19 of them in a row. It’s like, all right, should I try golf this year? Let’s try this. Okay. Yeah, I got a little bit better. Let’s try it one more year and then let’s try one more year. And then I’d get to the corn fairy tour. It’s like, okay, this is actually a pretty big step. Let’s, let’s see how this goes. And even at the end of that year, I was like, I’m probably wasn’t good enough. finished 85th in the money list. Like, I don’t really want to chase an empty dream here. If this isn’t going to happen. And then, then you get to the PGA tour and it’s like,
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
I can’t go any higher. So I found the highest level. Um, I got my brains beat in, but at the same time, like I just watched people all year long and I learned from the best and I enjoyed the experiences of going to the best cities and playing in front of that many people. And so it was just always a one year experiment on like, Hey, what’s this year going to be? And that’s kind of how I just looked at my career. And I didn’t think like, Hey, I want to be a top five player in the world by the time this is all done or Hey, I’d like 10 years on the PJ tour. was like, no, let’s just get through this year and
hopefully I’m better at the end of this year than I was at beginning.
Josh Nichols
Would you bottle up your mentality, your 19 years, and willingly give it to other people? Or would you say, no, no, no, this is how not to do it?
Steve Wheatcroft
No, I’d bottle it up because I think that I do a lot of things that work really, well for golfers that I think more.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Steve Wheatcroft
like uber talented golfers need to do. think you need to be able to be, I think everybody needs a little self deprecation in them. think laughing at yourself is one of the greatest things you can ever do as a professional athlete because otherwise the game will just wear you out mentally and you have no chance. So you have to be able to laugh at yourself. That’s the almost the number one lesson that I teach my kids is laugh at yourself. Who cares?
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Like you’re either going to laugh at yourself or you’re going to let this beat you up completely on the inside. So I was really good at that. And I’ve watched other golfers go through a lot of that stuff where they couldn’t laugh at themselves and they, they held themselves to such a high standard that they weren’t able to ever let themselves go down that road. And I think that that’s what kept me coming back is, know, when you fail in public, when you fail with people watching, like it’s, it’s easy to just go, you know what? I’m out of here. can’t do this anymore. But if you’re able to laugh at yourself and.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Talk about it in a humorous way. It makes it a lot easier to come back from that stuff and I wish that more people would do that and be a little easier on themselves and Just go look it’s golf man Like you’re hitting a little white ball that weighs an ounce and a half up into 30 mile an hour winds and you’re trying to make putts on bumpy grass greens and like
Things are going to happen. you can, you can make a perfect putting stroke and the ball’s not going to go in every time and that’s okay. But all you can do is try your hardest and put 100 % effort into everything. And if it doesn’t go your way, then it doesn’t go your way. But there’s so many people that can’t accept that when they play professional golf.
Josh Nichols
Right, yeah, they’re so hard on themselves. Tell me about the feeling of not belonging. Like you, it seemed like kind of each step of the way you felt like, don’t belong, these guys are better than me, and this feeds into the self-deprecation. But I don’t know, maybe flesh out the idea of not belonging and why you felt that constantly.
Steve Wheatcroft
I don’t know. I, that probably goes back to me being a kid and just, know, my grandparents would watch golfers on TV. And then I started to watch it when I was in high school a little bit more. remember watching the 96 masters with, you know, Faldo over Norman, that one that was just kind of a, an iconic masters, but I watched it. Over and over. And I just remember thinking like, these are the best players in the world. Like some of the shots and I wasn’t even a Nick Faldo fan, but I remember watching that round and watching him do. And this is, goes back to my mentality of how I looked at golf and every shot.
He hit was so strategic and where he had to hit it. He had to hit it exactly right there to put pressure on Norman That’s right where he hit it and that like so he mentally that was one of the greatest runs of golf I’d ever seen and I’d sit there and I’m getting ready for school in the morning I’d pop in the VHS tape and I’d watch the back nine of that again just and I don’t know why I kept doing it But I loved watching it But again that goes back to these guys are the best of the best like these guys are so good And I looked at him almost like they were superheroes in a box, right? Like I was never gonna meet those people. They lived in a different
planet. you know, we went to the Memorial tournament one year as a family, just to go over, we were in the Columbus area and we got tickets. And I remember watching those guys walk up the 18th fairway and it was cool to see them from 75 yards away. was like, my God, that’s Greg Norman right there. And that’s so-and-so right there. And,
But again, was always like they were, it might as well have been Leonardo DiCaprio walking up the fairway, right? Cause they were, they lived in a world that I was never going to be in. Um, you know, I grew up very blue collar town outside of Pittsburgh. My, my parents were hardworking. You know, there was nothing professional sports in our world zero, right? Um, we didn’t know any athletes. didn’t know. like you’d watch the Steelers on TV all the time and same thing. Those guys are superheroes. So to me, for me to ever think that I would belong out there was such a.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Like they were mythical creatures, man. They were, they were stuff in books and on TV and like they, didn’t exist in real life. so that’s why, you know, when I got my card, finally, it was like, okay, I just got, I finished 85th in the corn fairy tour, monoliths. And I’m to go play against tiger and Ernie and BJ and Phil. And like, those are the guys I’ve been watching on TV and now I have to go tee it up next to them. Like, I don’t have a chance.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Did I have a chance? Maybe. I don’t know, but I sure as hell didn’t think I did.
But I just I don’t know I just never felt like I belonged because that was never a world that I was comfortable with or I grew up with So it was always just what somebody else did or what a celebrity did or what? But I’m in the back of my mind of my subconscious that was never a world that I was gonna be Involved in and even when I got there. I didn’t feel like you know, I felt like You know, there’s a hundred and fifty six golfers at this event I’m probably 156 on that list right the guys that belong there
It just, never felt like I was one of the stars. always felt like I had to get there and no matter if we’re at check-in or if we’re at a restaurant or whatnot, and they’re like, Hey, you know, are you a golfer? Like, yeah, I am. And I have to explain who I am. And like, it wasn’t like, Oh my God, you’re Phil Mickelson. Like there’s a handful of times in my life that somebody would come over like you’re Steve Weecroft. Aren’t you? like, yeah, you know, like I’m, I was amazed when anybody knew who I was. Right. But again, it’s like, that was a different planet. When I saw Phil Mickelson and you know, you play
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
with him for the first time and you watch the crowd go crazy and then, they’re like, who the hell is he playing with? Who’s this guy? You’d ever heard of him? No. And it’s fine. Like I didn’t care. I took it as a, you I took it, you know, I laughed at myself again. Right. Um, but I don’t know. I guess, I guess I just long winded way of answering your question. guess I just never thought that I would be in that world. And even when I got there, I was like, it’s cool that I’m here now. I probably don’t belong here long-term, but we’ll see how long it lasts back to the one year experiment again.
Josh Nichols
Hmm. Right.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Josh Nichols
Right.
Did you ever want to be the Phil Mickelson, the VJ, the tiger? Did you want to be that?
Steve Wheatcroft
Yes and no. mean, I, a perfect world. Yeah. I’d love to go make tens of millions of dollars and play golf and fly on the private jets and all that stuff. we would always make jokes on tour that we wanted to be Charles Howell.
Because Charles Howe made $2 million every year of his life on the course. And then another probably $2 million off the course. So he’s making $4 million a year. He could walk into any movie theater with his kids and no one’s going to bother him. He could walk into any restaurant. No one’s going to bother him. Cause unless you’re a huge golf fan, nobody knew who he was. Right. And Charles Howe was one of the best college players of all time. And then he was a great PGA tour player. If Charles Howe walked into my kid’s school tomorrow, there might be three people in the school parent wise that would know who he was.
but it was just one of those things. It’s like, that’s the life you want to live where you can be private and still live a normal life, but get rich doing it and play golf for a living. so I don’t.
Josh Nichols
you
Steve Wheatcroft
That’s a good question. I never really thought of it that way. I probably would say no only because I know that.
There were certain things that you had to do to get to that level. Cause I wasn’t yet like some people are just super naturally talented. Like Phil Mickelson with a golf club in his hand. And I, Greg, don’t get me wrong. He puts a ton of time in, but the things he can do with the golf club, nobody else can do. He’s got that natural talent in there. I was never going to be that guy. was going to have to outwork everybody. And even then my ceiling was low where I wasn’t going to crack through that next level.
But you know, as far as like, would have had to get myself in crazy shape, go to the gym all the time, be on a super strict diet, which I wasn’t. was like.
Look, I’m not a big gym guy. I’ll go in there and try to stay somewhat in shape. but I love a good steak. loved having a good cocktail and red wine and things like that. And in a safe way back in the day. but I enjoyed going out to dinners with friends and just enjoying that side of the PJ tour. That was probably one of my favorite things is just going to different restaurants, just having fun nights out. They wouldn’t end up late and there wasn’t anything crazy. It was just like my wife and I, and another couple would go sit there and have dinner, but it was nice to go out and be able to order a good bottle of wine, be ordered to be able to eat a nice steak, things like that.
Josh Nichols
Mm. Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
but no, I don’t think I ever really had aspirations of being like, need to be a top. I would have been fine if somebody said, Hey, would you, would you be okay if you were just the top 100 player in the world forever? Yeah, please sign me up. I’ll be number 100. Like I don’t need to be number 16. Like I can be number 100 and be just fine. I would have been thrilled with that life.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Josh Nichols
One of the things you said, let’s see if I can find it right here. Okay, it’s a few sentences, so allow me to read it. I’m reading your book back to you, which is cool. I don’t remember the exact context, but it starts with, honestly, knowing what I know now, I can’t imagine being 17 or 18 and trying to compete on the PGA Tour. Nobody is mentally ready for that. Tiger was the exception. The rest of us, we needed the space to grow up. So you said Tiger was the exception.
Do see anyone else out there currently right now that is kind of also the same way Tiger was?
Steve Wheatcroft
That’s a really tricky question for me
Steve Wheatcroft
And the only reason I say that is I play golf with him all the time here and he’s the, he’s the best 16 year old in the world. He’s the number one ranked junior in the world. he’s like the 15th best amateur in the world. and again, he’s only 16 years old and he’s mature beyond his years. and he is a kid that I get asked all the time. Could he play out there full time? Cause he plays his name is miles Russell. I’m sure you probably know the name or if you don’t know the name, you will know the name, but he’s played in probably three or four PJ tour events and other two or three corn fairy events.
Josh Nichols
Mm. Mm.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
he’s about as mature as they get i mean he’s you know he plays golf with myself and you know fifty and forty fifty-year-old men like that’s his normal group that he plays with at atlanta beach and
He’s not your normal 16 year old kid, even, even him, I’ve told him, I’m like, go to college, man, go to college for a couple of years and just enjoy college for what it is. And don’t be in a rush to get out there because it’s going to become a business. It’s going to become a job. And you know, you need to enjoy this as long as you can. And so I, I don’t, um, you know, like blades Brown term pro at 17, I didn’t like that move at all because I think that the.
I think that it’s such a setup for failure at this point. Like what’s the rush man? Like if you, there’s no rush to get out there as a 17 year old kid, right? You’re to be able to play golf a long time. Go to college. Now you can go to college and get paid a crap ton of money to go to college and enjoy the best times of your life. And then, you know, what happens when that 17 year old phenom that everybody’s talking about gets out on tour and he starts playing a little bit poorly and now he’s living it out of a hotel room with his mom and dad and
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
He doesn’t have any of his best friends around and he has a weird inner circle because he’s playing golf with, you know, 20 whatever, 28 to 38 year old men.
And they don’t want to go do anything at night with them, right? Like they’re, they go do their own things because they have families and it’s, it’s just like, don’t be in a rush to take your youth and your kid years away. Um, because not only like you can handle the physical stuff he could, you know, I’m sure that kid would be just fine eating Chick-fil-A and going to his hotel rooms with his parents. And, you know, that is a life and you can, you can sign up for that life if you want it, but is that going to be the most fulfilling thing that you do in your life? Probably not.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
and are you going to get the most out of those years? If you do that, I can’t see how that’s going to be the case.
And how do you and how do you transition from being that quote-unquote 17 17 year old kid for the next? 10 years, you know, are you gonna be having your parents travel with you the whole time? Are you gonna like when do you transition out of that? Like that’s why it’s so easy to go to college and then you’re on your own for a little while you learn how to be an adult you learn how to Handle your own laundry make your own meals. Just do the stupid stuff that you need to do to be in a functioning adult and then when you’re traveling on the road like
You know, it’s funny, I had a call this morning with the LPGA and we’re talking about this with their, some of their younger athletes and how they come out. like, basically when you say I’m a, I’m going to turn pro now you’re the CEO of your own company and you better know how to run that thing from top to bottom. And if you don’t like.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
You’re going to be in a lot of trouble. So now you have to run this fortune 100 company by yourself and yeah, you have to go play good golf too. Like it was easy before you just show up to the golf course. Cause you know, your mom drives you there, the code college coach drives you there and you just show up, you play golf and everybody loves you for it. But now it’s like, no, now you have to figure out what hotel you’re staying in, what rental car you’re taking, what private like your caddies you have to worry about. mean, just anything and everything, but you got to run this whole business as a 19 year old kid, maybe.
Are you ready for that and to go play good golf? Because every golf right in the world is going to bash you when you come out and miss five straight cuts. They’re going to start asking questions about why you suck now. And, and you’re going to read those because you’re a 19 year old kid on social media. So it’s, it’s like, you can see the spiral, man. And it’s like, they’re not setting kids up for success anymore. They’re setting them up for failure, which.
Josh Nichols
you
Yes. Yes.
Josh Nichols
Mm. Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
You know, I, I I’m doing my part to help that and just flip that around and turn that around with the foundation work that we’re doing now. But it’s, I would not, like I said, even miles, who’s a great friend of mine. I’ll tell him point blank. You don’t go out there, man. Don’t even if he wins the U S Amateur this year and it’s like, man, there’s money on the table. There’s money on the table down the road. Like you’re going to be just fine. Go to Florida state, go enjoy yourself.
You know, if you want to come out at 20 fine, but just make sure that you’ve got a good circle around you. And he does. So, but again, I’d, I’d be very, very cautious if you’re young and thinking about turning pro, there’s a lot more to it than just the golf. I, you know, miles can go out there and beat half the guys on the PJ tour. That doesn’t mean he’s going to be a successful PJ tour player. It’s that simple. There’s so much more to it. Golf is.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, there’s
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Golf is 25 % of being a professional golfer and that’s probably on the high end. you gotta be able to manage all this stuff around you at the same time.
Josh Nichols
Wow.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah, we when we’re watching tv all we see is the golf we don’t see any of the other stuff Yeah
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep. Yep. It’s not.
And that’s what I tried to write through the book too. It’s like, yeah, I can tell you, know, Hey, I did this at this tournament. did like, I’d rather just tell you stories and tell you what real life looks like out there because it’s not all the, you know, guys get off of the, you know, finish their round on a Sunday, collect their check for half a million dollars, hop on their private jets and their home in bed by eight o’clock. Like, no, let’s talk about the guy who’s missing cuts. He’s playing offsite Saturday pro-ams cause he needs to make a little bit of money to bring home to his family. Then he’s trying to change his flight to a Southwest flight where he’s sitting in middle
middle seat in the back row. And then he gets, you know, hung up in Chicago and I was going to spend the night in Midland before he can get to, you know, a Monday qualifier for the next event because he’s not in, because the status is so low. It’s like, that’s the real world, man. There’s, there’s, know, there’s 50 guys in the world that, yeah, that have it really easy. And the rest of us are, you know, peace and peace in the whole puzzle together.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. There’s thousands of those.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. And there’s such an allure with golf of it. feels like at any moment you could, you could lose it. So I, we need to strike while the iron’s hot right now. So a kid who’s playing well, feels like I’m playing great right now. could, I could play well on the PGA tour right now. So I just need to go jump out and do it. But you’re the way you’re talking is you’re going to be fine. Let’s go kind of assist the state sustainability route long-term.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep.
Josh Nichols
focus on life long-term.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep. Yeah. And I think it’s getting better now in the fact like, cause so many people would jump. Like if you’re an 18 year old kid and you win the U S amateur and all these club companies and apparel companies come running out and they’re like, Hey, I can get, you know, $7 million if I turn pro tomorrow, that sounds phenomenal. Right. It’s great. It doesn’t guarantee you any long-term success. You could go out on the tour. doesn’t even get you status on the PGA tour or corn freight tour, right? It gets you seven starts and you can miss the cut and all of them. Then you’re back to where you started, but
You know, now that they’re able to pay them in college and like, if you win the U S amateur, you’re guaranteed to, know, whatever it might be three, four, $500,000 a year to go play college golf, probably a lot more. But, but it’s like, yeah, you can. Yeah. There’s a lot of money in college. If you’re really good though, that you’re going to get paid. Yeah. You’re going to get paid no matter what it can be. Yeah. so I, yeah.
Josh Nichols
Is that right?
Josh Nichols
Yeah, the top. Yeah. Okay. I didn’t know it was that much. Wow. Okay.
Sheesh.
Steve Wheatcroft
But if you can go there and like live your best life and learn how to be an adult and you’re still going to make that kind of money, by the way, that us amateur trophy that you won, it’s not going anywhere. It’s still going to be on your resume when you’re 21, 22, it’s still there. And who knows? Maybe you run off and you get another one or two of those. Or you, you you throw off, you know, you know, get to play the Walker cup and you get a couple of Walker cup wins. just like, you can add to your amateur resume still and get paid to do it along the way. Right. You can still take money now for sponsorships and.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
You can do all that stuff too. So they’re making that part of it a little bit easier for kids to stay in there. But I just, there’s so much more to professional golf than what people think. And they see the, the dollars getting thrown at you. It’s like, that’s fine, but it doesn’t guarantee you anything. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to play good golf. Like you can accept an $8 million deal from Nike to where their apparel and whatnot.
But all that guarantees is that you have to go to a bunch of photo shoots for them and now you have to do corporate days for them. But that doesn’t help you make any cuts. That doesn’t help you, you know, compete against the best players in the world. All that does is give you some money to throw in your bank account. Don’t get me wrong. It’s phenomenal. But if that’s your goal is to just cash out, then yeah, take that route by all means. if you want to be the best professional golfer for whatever that looks like five years or 20 years.
Then you know, you might want to figure everything else out around you first before you dive into that world. Make sure that that whole inner circle is super tight. Make sure that you’re comfortable with who you are as a person, um, that you’re not tying your entire self-worth to being a good golfer. Because as I said in the book, like.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Steve Wheatcroft
You’re either going to retire from the sport or you’re to be forced out of the sport or unless you die on the golf course, you’re going to retire from the game at some point. That day is coming. Like you can’t, or you’re not going to avoid that, but you sure as hell better know who you are when that day comes. And the only way you do that is to keep a good grounded sense of, you know, self-worth and self-being while you’re out there. That’s why Scottie Scheffler is just the, the cream of the crop right now. His interview with the British open, they should, they should make every junior golfer watch that every morning before they go play.
golf because that like you can’t for the best player in the world to sit there and say the things that he said, my God, every alumni from the PJ tour was going, yep, yep. All of that, all of that right there. That’s it. mean, just couldn’t have hit it on the head any better.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Right, yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. I know that’s months old at this point, but it still just rings in my ears. But a quote from your book, the satisfaction was endless, pure joy, relief, validation, a door swinging open to a world I’d only dreamed about. that’s you.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep.
Josh Nichols
There was lots of times where you were kind of in and out of the door of, okay, okay, so I know you wrote this, you should know. But I was wondering, because you’re talking about kind of the satisfaction, pure joy, validation. Scotty, on the other hand, kind of talked like, no, this isn’t a fulfilling life, this isn’t ultimately satisfying, so how do you pair those up?
Steve Wheatcroft
It had to be getting through Q School.
Steve Wheatcroft
I know.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep, I will say this that.
The Q school event is just a different event because not only do you, you you don’t w you can win the event technically, but if you finished in the top 25, you got PJ tour cards. This is the old Q school, right? So where you go straight to the PJ tour. So that was a different one because that was a game changer. That’s a life changer. You know, instead of going back to the mini tours or instead of going back to the corn fairy tour, you basically just got a 95 % pay raise and now you’re to go play with the best players in the world. And I didn’t see that one coming at all. Right. I truly never, I went there hoping to get a corn fairy tour.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
That’s right.
Steve Wheatcroft
and ended up walking out finishing seventh and getting a good PJ tour card. So the elation, whole thing, it was just like my whole world just changed overnight and opened a door to something that I never thought I would ever live that part of the dream. But to Scotty’s point, you know, when I won in Maryland or when I won in Boise,
Josh Nichols
Right.
Steve Wheatcroft
It was awesome for a couple hours. I went out and I had, you know, nice dinners and, know, celebrate with some friends and had a few cocktails and, but the next day it’s like, okay, now what? Like it’s cool that, know, everybody’s going to be shaking your hand on the driving range and, know, now you might have to do a couple more interviews at the next tournament, but it’s like, okay, now what? Like that was fun. That was really cool.
but yeah, it’s like, that’s not what, and I didn’t like, I probably got too into it because my, really tied a lot of my self-worth to my scores and my, in my job. And I was still feeling the way like, I was proud of myself. Don’t get me wrong, but it’s like, okay. Like this isn’t life fulfilling. This isn’t like, like nobody like.
If I ran into a golf fan and I said, Hey, do you remember who won the, you know, 2014 Albertsons Boise open? I, no, I don’t know who won that.
Josh Nichols
Ha ha ha.
Steve Wheatcroft
And it’s like, yeah. And that’s, was talking to a PJ tour player a couple of weeks ago who was struggling with some stuff. And I just said, look, you remember back in, know, you were out there. So you remember the 2015 money list, that guy that finished 32nd on that money list that like, remember how disappointed he was? And he was like, what? was like, exactly. Nobody knows who that guy was because nobody cares. And you know what? He had a great year. made $2 million or something like that on the golf course. the, at the end of the day, nobody cares. I mean, I was out of the game six months. mean, I did it for, I played professionally.
Josh Nichols
you
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
for 19 years. was on the corn fair and PGA tour for 14 of them, which is a lot longer than 99 % of golfers usually play, right? Six months after I was done, nobody knew who I was. Nobody even knew that I played golf. Nobody knew like you had to be in those inner circles to know who Steve Weecroft was. And that was part of the stuff that wore on me after a while. Cause you think in the moment you’re a lot bigger deal than what you are.
And then all of sudden you realize like, no, I was just somebody’s entertainment for a couple hours on a Sunday. And.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
It was a job and I made that job into who I was as a human and that you just, you can’t do that. It’s, so hard to do when you’re in the moment, but that’s why, you know, nobody told me any different. If somebody had sat me down when I was, you know, 25 and said, Hey, look, man, you know, I see the ups and downs you’re putting yourself through here. Like you, need to make sure you got X, Y, Z in your life and figure these different things out and don’t tie all this to golf. Cause golf’s just here for now.
You know, I tell people now when I’m 85 years old, if I write a book on, know, the story of Steve Weedcroft, like those seven years on the PJ tour, a small part of those 85 years, right? That’s not, it’s a chapter in the book. Don’t get me wrong. It’s probably the one that if anybody does know about it, that’s the one chapter people would know about, but it’s still a small chapter.
Josh Nichols
Man that’s well said so the the identity piece to kind of let’s let’s turn us towards the book Your book that cocktails and range balls It’s awesome. Whoever’s whoever’s listening to this go go read it like go buy it right now. It’s It’s so cool. It’s it’s compact juicy. I mean you just like you can tell you pour your heart and soul into it, so
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
You’re on the identity thing.
When you, I love what you just said. I was just someone’s entertainment on a Sunday afternoon for two hours. So what was the moment that that hit you where, okay, shoot, I’m not that person anymore. And then what did that do to you? What did that make you do?
Steve Wheatcroft
I can tell you what it made me do
Yeah, I probably need to preface this with right out of golf. I jumped into my next job as a financial advisor and I was doing that for the better part of two and a half or three years and was doing reasonably well at it. I didn’t love the job, but I knew that I wasn’t going to love anything the way I probably loved golf and like it was going to be a different world, right? But then I just started to go through this depression where I was waking up and not in this kind of answers your question. Like I started to feel depressed and I didn’t know why. I just I did like every other guy does in this world. It’s like, I just don’t feel right. I’m feeling down in the dumps. I don’t know why. Like this will pass.
Josh Nichols
Mmm. Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
I’ll work through it, rub some dirt on it, all the, all the cliches, right? And then like a day turned into a week. We turned into a month month turned into two months. It’s like every morning I’d wake up and I just felt like there was this black cloud waiting for me. So the second my feet hit the ground, started moving with me. And one day I had a case that was supposed to go through, um, and it, texted me that morning and just said, Hey, we’re to hold off a little while. It was fine. It’s like this stuff happens all the time, but for some reason that day was the day and I just lost it. I got super upset, anxious.
got my heart rate started spiking and I was seven 15 in the morning. I’m standing in my living room by myself. There’s nobody else here. And I just got that worked up about it. And I walked over and I poured myself a big glass of vodka splash, orange juice on top. turned on sports center and I just realized about 20 minutes later, I remember thinking like, God, I got really relaxed all of a sudden. I don’t give a shit about anything right now. And enough so that I got back up poured another one and
You know, I’d always been a social drinker my whole life and I handled alcohol very well. never had a problem with it whatsoever. was a good drinker, never got sloppy, never overdid myself. And that morning was the first time I ever used alcohol as a weapon and all I, I just tried to.
I mean, it might as well have been Drano, right? I was just trying to kill anything and everything inside of me. I was just trying to whatever it took to numb the feelings that I had or the disappointment or the self doubt or whatever the joy, the pain, mean, anything out of feelings, I just wanted them numb. And I walked through life like a zombie for the next two and a half years.
You know, it started with, know, earlier in the day drinking and then it turned in by the end of it. was wake up at seven in the morning or six 30 in the morning and have a drink ready, um, or have one hidden somewhere and take sips of it until I was able to get myself a nice full one somewhere. And, uh, then we were off and running every day and I just, did it only cause I hated myself and I didn’t know why I hated myself, but, um, that’s where things just started.
Steve Wheatcroft
to go downhill fast, really fast. it was a world, know, for someone who took so much pride in how strong their mentals were when they played golf and how I was able to overcome so much out there, man, I was completely helpless to this thing. And, you know, that was the most important thing in my life was that secret. And…
Being able to find that next drink and I’d heard stories of other alcoholics and I never believed it. And then you have to live it and you’re like, yeah, I’m that guy right now. Like I don’t, I care more about my secret and keeping it a secret than I do about my family. And that’s a terrible thing to say, but that’s how sick and twisted that disease is and how far down that rabbit hole you can go if you let it. And I did, I mean, I could have, I could have easily that morning, you know, known that I was in a bad place and said, yep, I know I’m going down a really bad road here. And I could have reached for a phone.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Steve Wheatcroft
and called and somebody for help but instead I reached for a bottle and went down a horrific road for the next two and a half years.
Josh Nichols
Why? Hmm.
appreciate you sharing that. And you’re not the only one sharing, you are sharing, I’m not the only one you’re sharing that with. You shared that with the entire world several times. know, hmm, let’s see. I’m just curious, because the idea of the rub some dirt on it, I’ll get over it, just power through it as a man, as kind of a…
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah, of course.
Steve Wheatcroft
I did.
Josh Nichols
That’s a like a sissy thing to do is to be depressed and to talk to somebody about it. So to, to someone who might think that, and I think that’s becoming less and less, it’s, it’s becoming more and more normal to talk about it. We’re getting there and you’re part of that solution, which is awesome. But to someone who does struggle talking to people about things like that and they want.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep.
Steve Wheatcroft
We’re getting there. Yep.
Josh Nichols
Tell me, okay, what was so alluring about alcohol or drinking that it seemed so much better than talking to someone? Why was that the choice?
Steve Wheatcroft
It was easier for me. I could keep it hidden. I didn’t have to come out in public and tell anybody that I was an alcoholic, that I was depressed, that I was, that I hated myself. I didn’t have to address any of those things. And that’s the, that’s the thing. You know, I kept doing it for so long because it was easy. It was an easy out, right? I didn’t have to face those demons. I didn’t have to, know, I could just sit there and kind of soak up, excuse me. I could kind of take that all in as myself, or to myself because I didn’t have to throw it out to the world.
And that’s why, like, I ended up checking myself into a treatment facility. I was in there for about 35 days and I knew that alcohol wasn’t the problem. It was now it’s time to look in the mirror and start to address the issues at hand. Like, why do I hate myself? And it just, I mean, it kept coming down to asking the hard questions and then having to answer them like, and coming up with answers because it was so much easier to just grab a drink and be like, screw it. I’ll figure this out some other time. And that’s what I did for, and I just kept doing it and doing it until that was the most comfortable way I could do anything.
But when you get to the point where you can’t drink anymore, it’s like, I have to find an outlet. I have to figure out what this is. And it’s, you know, there’s no magic pill. I’d love to tell people there’s some magic pill. You just take it and all this shit goes away. That’s not the case. just, but it’s a lot of hard questions that you have to answer, but it is the most fulfilling freeing thing you’ll ever do. And that’s why, you know, when I came out with my story,
I saw the power in hearing other people talk about it. And, you know, I remember it’s the first time I was sitting in one of those meetings and I’m sitting there and there’s a 70 year old homeless guy who’s in the meeting. And of course I’m sitting in there, like I’m the cream of the crop. don’t belong in this room. One of those things. And you realize quickly that’s exactly where you belong. But I remember this like 70 year old homeless man started talking about, you know, his life and the stories about it and all these things. And I’m like, my God, he’s telling my story right now.
And it was so eyeopening to me because I just assume I’m the only one with these thoughts. I’m the only one that does these things. I’m the only one that, focuses on this, you know, these demons and whatnot. And then all of to hear somebody that I have absolutely nothing in common with other than we share all the same demons and. But to hear him tell that story, I was like, that was one the most powerful things I’d ever done. And I didn’t do anything. I just listened. and that’s when my message, I knew when I came out of the treatment center that I needed to do something. Cause we had had three suicides on the PGA tour and.
Steve Wheatcroft
three and a half months, you know, we had a caddy a club rep and a player and I like I knew that world was getting toxic and it was starting to show by all these things happening and I just said look if I can be that voice that the 70 year old homeless voice if I could be that voice for somebody that’s still playing Then I need to at least try to do my part so I was set to release a letter to the the PGA tour guys and like
Privately just send it to you know 200 of them whatever it would have been just hey guys. Here’s my story I know most of you, but here’s what I’ve been dealing with if can help anybody let me know and I decided to put it on Twitter at the last minute just because I felt like more people needed to read it that I might be able to help and it exploded and but I just I saw the power of
the words and just what that can do and you know i’d rather a nonprofit foundation now we’re helping so many different people we have all these resources that we can help people with but honestly the most powerful thing i do to this day is still just tell a story and that’s what’s been able to get through to people because they realize that they’re not the only ones and you know when i released that letter i i called my parents and you know i had my wife read it and i just i told them point blank this is going to be really hard to read
It’s going to be very graphic. It’s going to be very open and honest. It’s going to be, it’s dark, but it has to be this way. Like this is the only way you get through to people because you have to tell the truth. And if you sugar coat this stuff, people are going to know you’re sugar coating it. And because I’ve been there, I’ve done that. Like I’ve seen guys that talk around it and it’s like, Nope, I know what you’re actually going through, but you’re just talking around this thing right now. So I, I mean, you know, you’ve read the book. There’s not much in there that I won’t talk about now because I understand how.
Josh Nichols
Yes, yes.
Steve Wheatcroft
how powerful that can be and it’s good for me to it’s good to talk about all that stuff because it was that was part of my recovery was just getting it all out there and being honest about it because i’d hidden it for so long that i could not anymore
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Steve Wheatcroft
But yeah, now it’s just a matter of trying to help others. Cause it’s not like it just goes away, man. I know there’s people out there struggling in silence. And, if my story, if my voice can be, you know, kind of that little beacon of light that they need to go get themselves help or to at least start that process, man, then it’s all worth it.
Josh Nichols
Man, that’s awesome. The thing that kind of made you that kind of snapping moment of the identity, I’m not that guy anymore. I am, maybe I’m like, I’m trash, I’m nothing. And how it was kind of tied to golf, right? Golf is not there anymore to kind of hide the, or to be my identity. Once that’s gone, there’s a void. So, and maybe this is a
Steve Wheatcroft
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep.
Josh Nichols
a weird question to ask, but when you play now, do you struggle with the identity feeling? Like do you kind of feel like you slip back into that and these clubs are this toxic thing? Or how does it feel?
Steve Wheatcroft
Nope. Nope. did for the longest time. I,
I made it about a year and a half or so after I got done playing where I would still go out and play and I was still pretty good. And, I’d play some fun pro members and I’d do all this stuff and I was still a good golfer. Right. But then when I started to go down the depression road and the anxiety road and the alcoholism road, then all of a sudden I became a really bad golfer. So then I would go play these same events that, last year I shot 64 and 65 and I’m shooting 80 78 and it’s embarrassing as hell. I’m not making contact with a five iron.
I’m not helping my team out whatsoever that they brought me in because I was the you good golfing pro So what’s that make you do it makes you go drink more and feel sorry for yourself and drops yourself worth it So I went down a road where I hated golf I didn’t touch a club for about eight months at one point which was unheard of I mean I hadn’t done that since I was probably six years old But I hated the game and then when I came out of the treatment center I started
I pick up a club and I, you know, hit a few balls here and there. And then I started to try to play just for fun again. And all of a the touch started coming back and honestly, the joy for the game came back because I was able to start hitting shots again. I mean, I still, you know,
The last four rounds I played, I think I shot 64, 76, 65, 74, like the goods really good still. it’s, but like, Hey, shot 60, you know, 64 at the park down in Palm beach and 40 mile or you know, 20 mile an winds and 40 degrees. Okay. Cool.
Steve Wheatcroft
It’s like, you shot 76 at Atlantic beach, your old home course. Okay, cool. Like I just don’t care. And I don’t take it personally now, um, because golf doesn’t define me like it used to. And now I just enjoy it for what it is. You know, I’m, I’m supposed to maybe go play tomorrow with ironically miles that kid and some of our friends and I just go and show up and we gamble and we have fun playing, but I enjoy it for what it is. And I don’t tie it to myself worth anymore. And if I shoot 82, fine. I just, maybe I need to go practice a little bit. If I want to try.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
to shoot 72 again or 62 again or but now I don’t let it define me and I wish that there was you know that’s the weird part about golf is that when you do get thrown into retirement nobody’s there with like a playbook like all right man you know Steve we want to thank you for your service yeah thanks for being out here here’s your playbook on what to do next here’s what’s helped other golfers transition to the next phase of their life it’s like no I’m retired it’s like every door just slams behind you as fast as they can shut them
And the phone stops ringing. Nobody cares anymore. You know, I even called a club rep to get irons like three months later that I’d been with for 15 years. And he’s like, thought you retired. I’m like, well, technically I’m on a medical, I have a torn shoulder that I might have to get surgery on, but I still might come back if I hate the working life. And he’s like, well, if you’re injured, why do you need clubs? I was like, Oh my God, I was with you guys for 15 years and I can’t get a set of irons anymore. Like that’s how fast it went away. But again, it’s like, nobody’s there with a playbook to help
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Steve Wheatcroft
you work through the mental side of things to help you work on the next phase of your job to work on, you know, how you should handle the game of golf and your thought process. you know, Ryan leaf, the old quarterback has become a friend of mine and we talked, we joked around about this. like the first time you go on to resume builder.com as a, as a former athlete and you start trying to fill that thing out. I mean, they should write a sitcom around that or, know, a comedy special.
Because we’re sitting there like skills. I don’t freaking know. didn’t three pot a whole lot. Like, what do you want me to write references? You want me to throw my caddy on there? Like it’s, but like.
You don’t think you have any skills when you’re an athlete and you go into the working world. think everybody else has been focused on being an accountant or a financial advisor, a real estate professional and all this stuff. like the, the skills we build as an athlete are monumental for the workforce, but we don’t think that we just think we’re some worthless athlete that, know, we think that everybody wants us because we have a name or we have like a Rolodex of rich friends or no, they want us because we have time management skills. We’re able to get knocked down and pick ourselves back up.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Steve Wheatcroft
We’re we’re self-determined. We don’t, we don’t need our handheld during things. Like there’s so many different things, but we don’t know that at the time we just get done and think we’re worthless pieces of shit that can’t, you know, throw a football or hit a golf ball anymore. So it’s, it’s one of those things until you know, you, don’t know. And you know, it.
There needs to be a better educational system of helping guys transition out of the game. And, it’s just that that’s a, as you can tell, probably there’s a, there’s two big pressure points for me. It’s getting people onto the tour and getting them off the tour that nobody really does anything with. And they’re just like, that’s why they get onto the tour and they’re confused. And, know, I get agents calling me like, this 22 year old kid hates it out here. Yeah. No shit. Like I figured he would like, he’s not ready for this. And then the guys coming off the tour, like, man, I didn’t realize how lonely this was. Yeah.
That’s exactly right. Cause nobody told you what to expect. but anyway, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely a different avenue to go down.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
So where do you come into that? Where does Mulligan Foundation fit into all this? Like how are you solving this? How are you part of the solution?
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah. So I, when I first got out and I wrote that letter, it kind of went viral quick. And I knew that there was a, avenue to kind of jump on this as like a service that I could help with you with. So I started working or trying to work with the PGA tour as kind of a liaison between, a bridge role between the mental health resources they have in the players, just as you know, somebody who’s lived the experience of, you know, going down the depression, anxiety, alcoholism road, but also living their life of being a corn fairy tour player, PGA tour player. Like I’ve walked in their shoes. know exactly.
Exactly what you guys are going through day in and day out, right? Well, that Avenue didn’t work out. The tour decided to go a different direction. So I started my own nonprofit called the Mulligan foundation. And we are, we’ve been doing a bunch of different projects with the honest, go sorenstam foundation for one. we’re helping a lot of the girls that she mentors, but then we’re in the process now and it’ll be announced in May, but we’re partnering with the CJ cut by her Nelson over in Dallas and the momentous Institute on building the first of its kind, monumental, you know, mental health pipeline, basically
starting with ages, five year old kids, when they get into the first tee programming, we’re going to have curriculums built into their teaching, like how their, their coaches are going to work mental health into their initiatives. And then all the way through the age, AGA platform, we just launched the pilot program with the NCAA and we got, you know, Oklahoma state to be our first, clients and as defending national champions. So, we’re going to be bringing a bunch of more on here quickly in the next few weeks as well, but we’re running pilot programs with the PGA tour and the LPGA tour with, with, you
Josh Nichols
Pretty good.
Steve Wheatcroft
10 golfers on each to start. And we’re slowly going to work in the transition into the game and out of the game. But we’re not doing it all ourselves. We’re just pulling the best resources from around the country. And everybody’s jumping on board with the mission we’re running with. And they want to be a part of that cohesive group working under one umbrella to help the game of golf. And as I say, whether you’re 7, 17, 27, or 37 years old, we’ve got a spot for you on this pipeline. And we’ve got mental health resources that can.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Steve Wheatcroft
You know, some of the best clinic clinicians, peer support specialists, you know, performance specialists, uh, you name it. We’ve got them all covered so we can, we can help people with whether, I mean, it doesn’t matter if you got, you know, anxiety over a three foot putt or you’ve got a drinking problem. Like we can help you with all this stuff so that people don’t do this stuff in the darkness anymore. Um, cause it’s so easy to, to kind of waste yourself away like I did and thinking that’s the only avenue you have when it’s not.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Josh Nichols
Yes, okay, so you’re kind of facilitating the solution for kind of a come to Mulligan Foundation, we will hook you up with what you need.
Steve Wheatcroft
I’m the puppet master. So we broke over there at the Mali or the, the CJ cup. and I joke that we’re like the puppet masters where we’re pulling in like the, the Jed foundation on rise, mind flow Cape performance, the AJGA, the USGA, the first T and we’re bringing everybody to the table together and saying like, you know, you specialize in this programming. So you take, know, the five to 12 year old age range and work on that curriculum and how we can integrate that. You know, you guys are better with the college athletes. Let’s say.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Steve Wheatcroft
integrates you there and put this into the, you know, this resource into this box. And so basically build the puzzle altogether. Everybody do your own part. And then, we should have this big monumental pipeline build out at the end. So it’s, it’s been going really, really well. We’re getting some, some, some great feedback from everybody that we’ve been helping so far and know, sky’s the limit from here.
Josh Nichols
That’s so cool.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, man, that’s awesome. Good for you,
Steve Wheatcroft
It’s been fun. It’s been a lot of fun. It’s just, it’s nice. It, every time that I start to question myself and what I’m doing and is it, you know, is this actually going to take off weird things happen? And, it’s just like my tour career. it’s kind of a funny side story and I don’t, haven’t told this, you know, to too many people yet, but,
Josh Nichols
Just like your tour career.
Steve Wheatcroft
I’ve been told for years like, Steve, you should write a book. You should write. got all these experiences with all these different people. You need to write a book. I was like, I’m not writing a book. Nobody cares about this. Like nobody’s going to read this. then a friend of mine who’s more than like the recovery circles came up to me they said, Hey, you need to write a book. I’m like, yay. I’ve heard this before. He’s like, no, no, no, you don’t get it, man. You’re not writing it for you. You’re writing it for him. I was like, okay, who’s him? He’s like, you’ll know when you write the book. And I was like, Oh God. Like now you got my curiosity up at least right.
Josh Nichols
you
Steve Wheatcroft
So like a couple months went by and then I was like, you know what? Maybe I should like just start jotting stuff down and see if anything comes out. And then sure enough, I wrote the book out pretty quickly actually.
And then I self published it. I put it on Amazon and it hit Amazon November 4th. And I posted something on LinkedIn about it. You know, Hey, go read this book. Yada. Yada. This is my life story, but there’s some funny, you know, whatever in there from the tour and goes through my dark drinking and all this stuff. So I make the post. I wake up the next morning on November 5th and I have a LinkedIn message from a PGA tour player. And he’s like, Hey man, we don’t really know each other all that well. We’re kind of passing, but you know, I really need to talk to you ASAP if you can.
And sure enough, very similar situation going down a bad road with alcohol, some depression in there. And he’s like, man, I just, you know, I haven’t been on LinkedIn in two years. I got some weird email about it. And so I logged into my account and the first thing I saw was your book. And I was just at one of those mental low points and I knew I needed help. And I was like, good Lord, it took me 15 hours. And I found out who him was.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Wow.
Steve Wheatcroft
But I mean, that’s how fast it happened. But I was like, that’s why I wrote the book. Like the book can go away tomorrow now. And it did its job. It helped one person because I would have given anything at the time, you know, when I went through my depths and I was like, I need help. I hit rock bottom. can’t do this anymore. You know, I, the first two people I reached out to were Chris Kirk and Grayson Murray. And I sent them Instagram DMS, right? And all it said, it was the same thing. It’s like, Hey man, I need help. Like I need one of you guys to reach back out to me. And, know, unfortunately Chris did and
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Josh Nichols
Mm. Mm. Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
check his own socials and Grayson ended up taking his life, you know, a month and a half later. but I, know, if somebody had reached out like that, I would have been jumping all over that one. Like, please help me, please give me direction.
Josh Nichols
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
Um, so it was really, really cool to see that that stuff happens. And then, you know, I went on another podcast to promote the book and we talked about it and the podcast host sent me a message that night when they released it and said, man, I didn’t know you’re going to be changing lives. And it was the same thing. It’s like, uh, one of the listeners had a suicide note written out and was planning on when he was going to take his life. knew exactly the day and when he was going to do it, how he was going to do it. And he listened to the podcast. He cried the whole way home and called for help. He called a therapist that he knew and started getting help.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Josh Nichols
Whoa, I got chills. Wow, that’s awesome, Whoa.
Josh Nichols
Dang.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Steve Wheatcroft
So it’s like, I know I got chills, believe me, man, getting the text message from the guy. it’s like, my God, this is real. And, know, I don’t know the guy’s name. I don’t know anything about him, but I know I, I text with them from time to time to make sure he’s still doing okay. but again, it’s just like, just hearing a voice, hearing a story, hearing that you’re not alone in this stuff, man. It’s, you know, when you’re in the darkness, you can’t see the light when somebody’s there to help, you know, open a door for you a little bit. You know, that’s.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Steve Wheatcroft
It’s it’s meant to you know, I’m sure one of your listeners is gonna be going down the same road right now going holy shit I wasn’t even gonna listen to this today and This is a sign man, and that’s I told my friend that’s on the tour and I said look I Used to believe in coincidences. I don’t really anymore like this stuff was supposed to happen for a reason I was supposed to write that book for guys like you and you were supposed to open up LinkedIn to see that you know That that was on there. So This stuff is meant to be
Josh Nichols
Man, that’s so cool. Cocktails and range balls, the reason why it’s so cool is just like you, you kind of are an approachable, honest, fun, can joke, can tell good stories, but embedded in it is this amazing story of difficulty, triumph, difficulty, triumph, and ultimately kind of
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep.
Josh Nichols
rock bottom and then climbing out of it through not easy, not easy climb, but that’s the book is, I mean, you look at the cover and you’re like, this is just like a joke, jokey, fun story book, but you read it and it is not, and it is awesome. I love it.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yep. No.
Yeah, the cover was a little interesting. I was trying to come up with a fun way to do it. And then I thought like, it’s an alcoholic saying, it’s one of those AA saying is once too many, 10’s not enough talking about drinks. But I was like, that applies so well to me in range balls, because once I started hitting range balls, one was too many and 10’s never enough. Um, so it’s like the two things in my life. And I joke now that like, you know, God gave me a certain number of golf balls and drinks that I was able to have in my life. And I just happened to use them all up by the time I was, you know, 45 years old. Um,
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Josh Nichols
That’s right.
Steve Wheatcroft
So, but yeah, that’s where the book cover came from. And that’s where, yeah, it all came. And it’s a fun story. You know, I’m, I’m not a big book reader. So I say that in that when I wrote the book, I’m not going to fill it with a bunch of fluff and I’m not going to fill it just to have longer pages. It’s a quick read. It’s 125 pages. It’s very light in between each chapter. put different fun stories from the tour, that a lot of people won’t hear, whether it’s, you know, John Daly or missile strikes in Hawaii or.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Josh Nichols
Right.
Steve Wheatcroft
bubble Watson story is just like random fun things that you’re never gonna find anywhere else but yeah I just want to keep it fun and lighthearted and then obviously there’s some dark times there in the end that I would really get into but I hope that people can take life lessons out of it and not you know that that’s what it was meant to do is is shine hope not darkness
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, I finished it this morning while I was holding my four month old daughter, putting her down for a nap. it was, it’s just, it’s like, you can, I don’t know. I just was like addicted to it. Couldn’t stop reading it. So go get cocktails and range balls. I, I, I assume that’s kind of where you want people to go from this.
Steve Wheatcroft
Yeah. Yeah. By all means, if you, if you love the story so far and there’s, there’s a lot more to it, but it’s on Amazon cocktails and range balls, a bunch of different formats on there. I’d love to have you go on there. Go to the Mulligan foundation.org on the website. Check us out and see all the work we’re doing there. The website’s going to get blown up here shortly with all the new stuff we’ve got going as well. But, yeah, I’m excited, man. We’re doing some fun things and trying to help as many people as we can.
Josh Nichols
Steve Wheatcroft, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, man.
Steve Wheatcroft
Thank you, Josh. Appreciate you having me on.
