Podcast Transcript
Josh Nichols
Steven Yellin, thanks for being on the show.
Steven Yellin
My pleasure, Josh.
Josh
All right. I was doing some reading of, of your book, Simplicity, awesome book. but I found this quote that that really stuck out to me. Excellence in any field is determined by one factor and one factor alone, the level of mid brain development. I’m sorry. Mind brain development. Mind brain development includes higher brain integration, psychological development and growth of higher states of consciousness and
I think that’s something you learned from your, someone you knew, Fred Travis, a neuroscientist. So, that’s, that’s got some depth to it, that quote. So, can you unpack that for me? I know that’s a lot to unpack, but can you do that?
Steven
Well, the thing is, is sports is all about motion, motion is all about the muscles. Where’s the operating system of the muscles? Is it in the muscles? No.
Josh
brain.
Steven
brain physiology. So I’m watching the Australian Open when you see Djokovic serve an ace or hit a unreturnable returner serve or a guy Ben Shelton serve is just unbelievable. What do really have to congratulate? You have to congratulate the sophistication of his brain physiology that allows the motion to be so effective. And unless you understand the environment the brain physiology needs to exist in,
in order to produce fluid motion, there’s something really lacking in your understanding of all sports. Because the body really doesn’t have intelligence. So when you see a golf analysis of a swing and he says, you know, look where he got the club, look at the angle of attack, look at his balance. Ultimately, what are you really congratulating? What are you really congratulating? Okay. When a car runs really well,
What are you congratulating? You’re congratulating the engine, okay? So this engine works the same for all athletes in all sports. So if you understand the subtle dynamics of the engine and you understand the environment the engine needs to work in, you have a tremendous, tremendous advantage in reaching your potential in whatever sport you’re.
Josh
So the mind-brain development.
There’s so much to unpack there, but when you say mind-brain development, why mind-brain? What do you mean there?
Steven
No, let’s just look at the brain physiology and the dynamics of what produces fluid motion. Let’s not get too complicated. Let’s sort of dummy it down so everyone can understand. It’s not a neurophysiological discussion and you can go very deep into it. But essentially, when someone produces a fluid motion in any sport, it doesn’t matter what the sport is, they are experiencing identical processes in the brain physiology.
Did you know that Josh? Did you know that before this?
Josh
that multiple people would be experiencing the same thing. It doesn’t matter the person, they’re all experiencing the same thing. Yeah. I think I might’ve known that to a degree, but that seems too good to be true. That seems too universal.
Steven
Yes. Yeah.
Did you, do you know?
It’s completely universal. That’s why the program’s been taught in ten sports. Fluid motion is produced identically regardless of the quality, regardless of the motion. And it’s very simple. in order to produce a motion, any motion, you have to generate a signal, an intention in the brain physiology. Now there are multiple processes going on, but the main one is
involves the prefrontal cortex in the motor system. So when you produce a fluid motion, let’s say in golf, in that 1.5 seconds it takes to produce a golf swing, that signal bypasses the PFC, which means the intellect goes offline and goes right to the motor system. And it’s the motor system which communicates with the body to produce a motion. The problem occurs is when the PFC goes online, delays the signal.
then in the middle of motion there’s too many processes going on. You can say this about any sport and that’s when the bulk of your core level of the muscles dominate and you don’t produce a fluid motion. It’s that simple. It’s black and white. There’s no gray area here. This is not an interpretation or Steven’s take on it. This is what separates the men from the boys or the girls from the women in any sport is their intellect goes offline, which is easier said than done when you’re under the gun.
Josh
What’s the, maybe the practical or the…
the layman’s term for intellect goes online or offline or stays online or goes offline. What would be some normal terminology there that we might use in golf?
Steven
you’re not thinking as much, okay? Thoughts about the swing are not dominating. So the mind is very quiet. You can say the mind gets very quiet. And this quiet mind is the key to all sports, literally all sports. And the great ones live in that space of silence. The not so great ones under the gun,
That mind is working pretty hard. And I think you can relate and I think, you know, anyone who’s listening to this podcast can relate.
Josh
Yeah, that, um, it’s, so funny you say that just on the most, um, Meta level as you and I are talking, I, if I let my intellect get in the way, I kind of trip over myself and we’ve only been talking for four minutes, but the, the universality that you’re talking about, doesn’t matter. The sport doesn’t matter. The motion doesn’t matter. The person that occurs all the time. If I get in my own way, it.
I muddy the process.
Steven
There you go. That’s it. That’s the gold standard.
It’s not easy to teach someone how to keep the PFC offline because people were taught in sports to actually keep the PFC, the intellect, online. Do this, don’t do that. So they’re taught one way, but to perform and have his own experience, they have to have the opposite experience, which is sort of an interesting phenomenon.
Josh
That’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot is the conscious versus subconscious and maybe that’s kind of different terms for this. You tell me, are those different terms for the kind of PFC versus what do you call it, cerebellum maybe would be the other one?
Steven
No, cerebellum has the ability to sync a swing and self-correct a swing. To access the cerebellum correctly, the mind has to be very quiet. If the mind is not quiet, then you’re not going be able to access the cerebellum correctly, and that’s when the bulkier core level of the muscles dominate and you don’t produce fluid motion. But you could say subconscious, I like to say just quiet.
mind gets very quiet and I think people can relate to that a lot.
Josh
Okay.
In practice, when you’re trying to be very intentional and trying to acquire new skill, something I’ve kind of been thinking, and I want you to correct me if I’m off here, is that’s when you’re… that’s when to have the intellect online to acquire new skill. And then when you play, that’s when to…
turned it off and allow yourself to access what you have acquired. Is that a fair way to look at it?
Steven
Yeah, there’s a deeper level though. the deeper level is you have to ask yourself the question, what environment does the brain physiology need to exist in in order to experience fluid motion? And that environment can be answered with one word, wholeness. The brain physiology was created to produce fluid motion when an experience is wholeness. Now wholeness is a very abstract word, so let’s make it concrete.
Josh
Okay.
Steven
Okay? You’re behind the ball, you’re taking into consideration all the elements of the shot. The lie, the wind, the temperature, what club you want to hit and how you want to hit it. Now, we’re going to make a golf smoothie. Everyone’s made a smoothie before. They put a, you know, strawberry, raspberry, banana and yogurt and they hit the blend button. Now, after they hit the blend button, if they can see a piece of banana, they don’t really have a smoothie, right? So, we’re going to make a golf smoothie.
and the smoothie is all the elements of the swing. Now right before you pull the trigger, you want to hit the blend button on your golf smoothie and if something is pulsating, you don’t have a threshold level of wholeness. So if you don’t have a threshold level of wholeness before you initiate the swing and the brain physiology needs to exist with a threshold level of wholeness, what chances do you have of experiencing during the swing? Not that.
Great. So, let’s get back to teaching somebody new skills, right? So, they have to learn the skill. But they should learn the skill without shutting down the ability to experience wholeness during the swing. Because if all their attention is on a part, get the club here, get the body here, get the hands here, get the wrist here, they’re not going have a very good smoothie, right? They’re going to break wholeness.
So the level of intelligence flowing from the mind to the body is going to be not of the highest quality. So how do you correct this? Because they need to know what to do. They need to know where the club should be, right? Now, the way an instructor teaches is you did it, you didn’t do it. You got your hands in the right position.
you didn’t get your hands in the right position, right? So the mind is always very concrete, sort of a report card mentality. And that usually, because all the attention is on the hands, what happens to the quality of wholeness? What happens to it, Josh?
Josh
Yeah, it’s broken up. It’s the chunk of banana in the smoothie.
Steven
It’s a chunk of banana, exactly. So how do you rectify this? It’s very subtle dance.
quite brilliant.
You want to first give the student the experience of wholeness, what wholeness feels like, okay? So you set up these conditions, which I teach, where he’s able to make a smoothie when swinging, right? Even with what he has, even if what he has is not that great, he’s still able to make a smoothie, right? Now, what the instruct, so he knows what wholeness is. He has a baseline of wholeness.
You have to have a baseline of wholeness, okay? So then, what the instructor does, let’s say he wants to have the person’s hands at a different position on top of the swing. He says, okay, Suzy, what I want you to do, first of all, you know what wholeness feels like, right? Yes, I know what wholeness feels like. So what I want you to do is I want you to swing.
with your attention on getting your hands in the right position. But you’re to give me a number from 1 to 10 on how much wholeness you experienced while your attention was on your hands. From 1 to 10. 10 is no chunk of banana. Okay, 1, no. So no one gets a 10, very few people, because their attention is on
Josh
peak wholeness.
Steven
The hands, right? So they have to swing, this is without a ball. They have to take as many swings as necessary without a ball until they get a 10 with their hands, with their attention on the hands and they have a 10 level of wholeness. So then the move is not breaking wholeness. Do you see that, right?
Josh
Interesting.
Steven
I’ll give you a second to digest that because it’s subtle, right?
Josh
So this gets on the… Okay, yeah.
Steven
There’s one more part, okay, but you ask me anything right now. You have anything to ask me right now.
Josh
Okay. Do I?
Keep going. I have a question that is more broad, but keep going.
Steven
Okay, now they’re ready to hit a ball. They’re not ready to hit a ball until they can swing with their attention on the hands and still have a 10 level of wholeness, right? So now they’re going hit a ball, but, it’s such a subtle dance. It’s really subtle.
just admiring it in my mind before I talk.
Josh
Keep it to yourself if you just wanna admire it only.
Steven
No. Every golfer on this planet should know this, okay? As well as every instructor. Now they’re gonna hit a ball. Ready to hit a ball. But the teacher’s gonna say, we’re not gonna evaluate this shot as to whether you got your hands in the right position. I want you to put your attention, obviously, on your hands getting in the right position, but we’re gonna evaluate this shot based on how much wholeness you experienced while you’re…
your attention was on your hands. So now what you’re doing is you’re constructing the environment where it’s the only environment where you’re actually going to make the change because you’re not interfering with the brain’s physiology of producing fluid motion by having a low level of wholeness.
Josh
And is this describing maybe the only way to make a swing change? Is that what you’re getting at? Like, make it properly?
Steven
It’s the…
It’s the fastest way. It could be done in two or three swings, not to say that it’s going to stick over time. need to practice it. But the mind is weakened when you use concrete criteria, when you use report card criteria. You got it in the right position. You didn’t get it in the right position. So what happens is the neuronal pathways, the myelin, is not being constructed correctly because
you’re associating the correct shot only with your hands being in the right position and not with having a high level of wholeness. So when you go to the course, what are you thinking about? What’s the only thing you’re thinking about? This is why people can’t take swing changes to the course. Did I get my hands in the right position? Well, guess what, Susie? You are systematically breaking wholeness. So why are you disappointed?
that number one, you’re not getting your hands in the right position and number two, the rest of the swing is not synced as well.
Josh
Yeah, this is, you know, I’ve always kind of thought of, you know, practice. Yeah, I even said it already was kind of skill acquisition and skill access where one is purely technical and then one is purely non-technical. Yours is a blend of the two and where you are, you intentionally don’t want to separate the two.
technique needs to be paired with the turning off the intellect. It’s having intellect on and off at the same time.
Steven
What’s in charge of the technique? What’s in charge of the movement, Is the movement in charge of the movement?
Josh
your brain.
Steven
Don’t you have to always go back to the motherboard?
Josh
That’s where starts.
Steven
Right, you know, if the car’s not running, you gotta go to the engine.
So, you know, this is a paradigm shifting understanding that…
Well, when you see it in operation, it’s magic. It’s magical how quickly you can make a change in someone’s swing. If you don’t do this, it’s a slow boat to China. Very slow. Because you’re not taking into consideration that environment of wholeness. You don’t take into consideration the environment of wholeness.
You know what that’s called? I’ll tell you what it’s called.
Black check.
Josh
Hmm, say more.
Steven
just luck whether you do it or you don’t do it. There’s no systematic way of doing it. You’re playing blackjack out there because you’re not understanding that environment. That mind-body connection really, it needs to be understood by everybody because if you don’t understand the mind-body connection, how can you understand the body if you don’t understand its correlate?
Josh
How would someone know that there are 10 out of 10 wholeness?
Steven
You have to have the experience. They’ll know. They’ll know because the swing is effortless and it’s fluid and it’s balanced and it’s in sync and the sound of the ball is different and the flight of the ball is different.
everything. People know if they played enough golf, they know. They don’t have to, you know, you don’t have to give them a whole, no, you don’t have to define it. People know.
Josh
fine it.
Okay, and is is wholeness different from person to person?
Steven
No, it’s exactly the same. It’s exactly, all these processes, do you think your cerebellum works different than mine? When you go to a heart surgeon in Australia, do you think he’s going to give you different information than a heart surgeon? No, we’re talking physiology. This is, know, the buck stops here. It has nothing to do with personality. It has nothing to do with how people learn.
Josh
Okay.
Hopefully not.
Steven
It has nothing to do with tendencies. It even has nothing to do with belief. You don’t even have to believe this works. You don’t have to believe water boils. You just turn it to 212 and it’s going to boil. People go through my program and they’re absolutely…
Some of them within five or ten minutes absolutely cannot believe it. I cannot believe that you’re telling me to do this and I’m getting this result. Because what I tell them to do is so simple and easy, you wouldn’t think that they’re going to get the result that they get. You know? I mean, I remember teaching many people, but one of them is a man by the name of Brad Dalkey.
Josh
you
Steven
You know the name?
Josh
Yeah, I do. Good player.
Steven
Yeah, runner-up USM, played the Masters. So Brad comes down, was teaching at Leadbetters at the time, Brad comes down and everyone, Josh, goes through the same program identically. If I’m working with Scotty Scheffler or Rory, Rory could, this would change Rory’s career, okay? He wouldn’t have to wait 10 years to win another major, right?
He’s breaking wholeness. Rory was systematically breaking wholeness. Why?
I’ve got to win. I’ve to win. I have to hit good shots. Total report card. So I give Brad Doki, I have these fluid cues, there’s about 20 of them. I give him the first one. He hits five balls. He turns to me says, I never want to leave this space again. Ever. Five balls.
Josh
Right. Report card.
Steven
because once you set up these subtle conditions, it’s automatic. There’s no learning curve. There’s no learning curve with the cerebellum and the motor cortex. This is neurophysiological response. This is not psychological innovation or let’s go slow, how do you feel, give me some feedback. And once I give them these fluid cues, I just
get out of the way because they’re setting up the conditions to teach themselves. That’s what I do. I set up the conditions. All I want to do is teach someone how to get that signal to the motor court. I’m not interested in anything else because once you do that, all the dominoes fall in line. If you don’t do that, it’s blackjack out there. You don’t know what, even the pros, they never know what they’re going to get in any given day.
And one of the reasons why is number one, they don’t understand how fluid motion is produced. Nobody does. Except if you’re a neurophysiologist, you’re Fred Travis, neurophysiologist, or you’ve been through the program. So, you know, you sit down with these guys and they’re brilliant and, you know, somehow they access that. All right. That’s why they’re on that level. Do they understand the dynamics of what has to happen?
for them to play well? No. No. You sit down with them, do you know what you have to do today to play well? Let’s say you’re sitting down with Rory or John Rahm or or Kepka. Do you understand the dynamic? Well, I gotta get my I play well when I get my hands in this position and I have this feel. Bryson DeChambeau, I heard, has 140 feels. 140. I heard it.
Josh
Hmm.
Steven
Does he understand the dynamics of how the field allows him to produce fluid motion? You think he understands those dynamics? No. Clueless. He doesn’t. Now as long as he accesses this fluid motion factor where the signal is going right to the motor, he doesn’t have to understand it. You don’t have to understand how water boils, what are the dynamics of the molecules doing this and this, all right?
as long as you get the temperature to 212. So what this program represents, we’re going from, if you know physics, from the atomic model to the quantum level. We’re going in a completely antithetical, not antithetical, I’m not too sure what antithetical means, morphing into a whole other area. But,
Josh
Hmm.
Orthogonal. Yeah.
Thank you.
Steven
But it has to happen. You can’t argue with the signal going to the motor. Who’s going to argue with that? You can’t. So essentially, in a way, though it sounds kind of harsh in a way, every player on every tour, every time they’re played, I hope something good shows up. I hope it shows up.
I know what it feels like when it shows up.
But I don’t have a systematic way to set up those conditions. But the good ones, they get there anyway.
Josh
So setting up a systematic way to get those conditions, the fluid cues, the… I do understand how fluid motion is produced. All of these, you know, I understand the system and I’m not hindered by… I’m not guessing, I’m not getting lucky. So do those players.
I guess you use the term harsh, I’ll ask a harsh question maybe. Why don’t they hit every shot great? Or win every time they play?
Steven
I’ll answer it like this, okay?
Let’s see Scotty and Rory go through the program.
and John Rahm and Brooks Koepka.
And let’s say, and they’re all sold out to it. They all believe it. They all know they have to do it. And they can do it the majority of the time. Why can’t they do it 100 % of the time? That’s the question you’re asking, right? If they know, right, what they have to do, why can’t they do it 100 % of the time?
Josh
basically.
Steven
because in this 1.5 seconds it takes to generate a swing.
They experience a block to accessing deeper levels of science.
It’s the human condition.
because they know they want to keep the PFC offline. But there’s a block.
And the block is always the same. Something broke Holman.
People have emotions. They have a life off the course. Something maybe happened in their marriage or to their kids or whatever. They’re not emotionless. when they miss, first of all, when any pro misses a shot, they broke homeless. Now you could say, well, look at his swing. He was too shallow, too steep, or held onto the club where, that’s a byproduct.
Josh, that’s a by-product. That’s not the issue. The issue is why were they too steep on one swing and not too steep on another swing? They didn’t have sufficient level of intelligence flowing into the body because wholeness was broken.
That’s the bottom line. So the reason why they can’t do it even if they know the program, and I’ve taught it to players that have won on the LPGA tour and that have won big amateur events and that have done very well, they can’t do it all the
They have a block to accessing silence. And that’s the reason why.
Josh
Is that where psychology comes in?
Steven
That could help.
Now, there’s only one reason why they have a block to access in silence.
There’s fear.
Josh
was gonna say. Fear.
Steven
fear. Okay? And I’ve pinpointed, I think I, it’s pretty comprehensive, five reasons why fear shows up.
Fear of fear of success, not comfortable in your own skin, playing for somebody else, we’re not worthy.
And this, you know, I’m watching the Australian Open, these guys who are ranked 140 or 85 or 59, they’re so good. And then there’s five or six points where they’re not so good. And the guys, the top 10, they don’t go anywhere. They stay in that ocean of silence. And the other guys, come up for air. Why fear? Am I really this good? Do I really deserve to win? How can I beat a guy played
playing at so higher rank than I am. Do I really feel worthy in life? Is this really my destiny? Boom.
Josh
Yeah, self doubt
And that’s, that’s the, now you’ve kind of reassended back to intellect PFC land while you’re trying to perform something that needs to be performed when that’s off.
Steven
That’s correct.
That’s correct because if you have fear the PFC for sure is going to be online. It’s producing the fear in a way, you know.
Josh
Right, it’s kind of echoing it.
Steven
It’s sort of echoing exactly correct.
Josh
Hmm.
You said fluid cues you gave to Brad Dawkey. What do you mean fluid cues?
Steven
Something to keep the PFC offline.
Very simple. They have to be simple because when you played your best golf it was simple.
So, you know, they’re all in the book. You didn’t read the whole book, obviously. But you didn’t have time. You just sort of skimmed through it, which is fine, okay? But it’s all in the book’s simplicity, the whole program. Though there are a couple of fluid cues you would only get from me in person, because these are the VIP fluid cues, okay? You know, got to leave… No, I didn’t develop them. They were developed after Brad. The program’s gone through… Yeah.
Josh
Okay. Is that what Brad got?
No kidding. Okay.
Steven
program’s gone through many iterations over time.
Josh
Okay. Why has it had to go through iterations if it’s, yeah.
Steven
courses.
It’s a subtle dance.
It’s a very subtle dance. It’s not a clear cut path. So you have to test what works, especially under pressure. And then my understanding from Dr. Fred Trapp has deepened as well. So it’s gone through many iterations. I think it’s more or less done, but I always say that then something new comes up, you know?
That’s just the nature of developing something over time.
Josh
So the iteration is ways to get to the same core place that hasn’t changed. Is that fair? Right.
Steven
Always. All roads lead to Rome. How are you going to get that signal to the motor system? That’s it. That will never change. But there’s many ways to do that.
Josh
Okay.
Right. Okay. When you say many ways to do that, that brings me, or that leads me to think this. I was actually talking with someone earlier today who’s read your material and he was talking about, I’m in the middle of reading this, Rotella, Giovaliente, Galway, intergame of tennis and golf and…
He said, it seems like they’re all different approaches to getting to the same place. And I wrote down a question as he was saying that. Basically, if…
If yours, if you would claim that yours, I guess maybe the best question would be why is there so many different books on this sort of topic?
Steven
Well, first of all, all the books you mention are sports psychology.
This is not sports psychology. This is another genre. Sports psychology has to do with attitudes, emotions, belief, self-discipline, all of that. I never go there. I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in one thing. What is the brain physiology experiencing in 1.5 seconds to create a fluid motion? So you can’t put my book in that category.
I have no background in sports psychology. So this is different. Now if sports psychology works, if Rutella works with a guy, golf is not a game of perfect, Tom Kite, I think, wrote the introduction. So the only reason that Rutella had success with any of these players is because somehow
he was able to set up the conditions for the signal to bypass the prefrontal cortex. End of story. Now I’m not saying that mine is the only way to do that. Obviously, there are many sports psychologists who have had a lot of success with different players, but they go about it through talking. Now how do you feel after you’re double? How do you feel? How much do you believe in yourself?
Do you think you’re worthy of this? What do you think is preventing you from winning a major championship? I’m not interested in those questions. Those questions are irrelevant to me. Unless there’s a block, then I’m interested in the question. Because the reason why there’s a block is they have those questions to themselves. But until there’s a block, I don’t care if you believe in yourself.
How much confidence you have? I’m not trying to instill confidence in you. I’m just trying to get the signal to the motor system. Okay? Now, if you don’t have confidence in yourself, the intellect’s gonna go online and you’re gonna be blocked. But we have to walk that, go over that bridge down the road. We’re not talking about that now. Whereas, Retell and those guys, that’s the first thing they’re talking about. How much self-confidence do you have? How much do you believe in yourself? What else, you know, that’s their…
That’s the tools they have in their toolbox.
Josh
Hmm.
So would a sports psychologist do themselves a service to learn what you’re talking about?
Steven
Do you think that they need to understand about the brain physiology and wholeness? It’s not my, I don’t have a patent on this, You know, do you think all cardiologists have to learn how the heart works, but only a few? No, everyone has to learn it, okay?
Josh
and it would change.
Steven
They have a lot invested over time. No one wants to switch directions. No one wants to admit there’s a better mousetrap, okay? And they’ve had success. Good for them, okay? Keep having success. But ultimately, if you really want to complete your resume as a sports psychologist, you need to understand these dynamics. You need to understand the fluid motion factor.
You need to understand wholeness. You need to understand abstraction. You need to understand what’s in the book. Because that book is a textbook. It’s not a personal account.
Josh
Okay, so we’re playing, we’re playing a round of golf and, we get done.
And you’re, and you’re kind of thinking back of how it went and, you could, a formal term would maybe be like, you’re doing some sort of post-round review or that would be the formal term where you just, you know, thinking about how it went. What, what would you think a player should be doing during that time when they’re looking back at a round of golf?
Steven
Whatever shot they miss, broke home is.
Josh
Okay.
Steven
It’s usually the target. Usually the target breaks wholeness. Target is not your friend. Target wants to have all your attention. you know, the target’s not moving. You’re never going to forget where it is. What’s all this attention on the target? You think putting more attention on the target’s going to allow you to hit the target? No. That’s a chunk of banana right there. But, you know, golf is a target sport, as is most, every sport. So you have to
take three or four shots that you missed, whatever they are, putts or whatever shots, and understand, ask yourself the question. It’s very simple. What broke homeless? And they’ll say, when you think about it, are you a golfer? Are you a golfer, Josh? What’s your handicap? You could golfer.
Josh
Yeah, plus .3.
Steven
Okay, so let’s take the last round of golf you played, alright? I want you to get in your mind a shot that you really would like to take back, that you missed. You got the shot in your mind? Okay, so you tell me what broke a hole in this on that shot.
Josh
Hmm.
Mmm.
I’ll describe the shot as I’m thinking about it, because this is not my normal paradigm to be thinking of this way. So the shot was, it was probably like a 80 yard shot from the fairway to a tucked back right pin.
What broke wholeness? that’s such a good question.
I it was technical related. was, here’s how I’m supposed to swing this club.
Steven
by product.
What broke wholeness? Why? First of all, first of all, you’ve hit this shot a thousand times, correct? All right. So the technical point, it’s a moot point, all right? What broke wholeness from what you described it was number one, anytime you have a scoring club in your hand, what happens to the DNA goal? DNA goal is the embedded goal in the sport.
So you’re about to put a score on scorecard, right? You have the potential to birdie this hole, right? So the closer you get to the hole, the more you, the DNA goal starts to pulsate, right? So it was a tucked right pin, right? That’s what you said. So it was a little challenging. So what broke whole miss was the shot was a little challenging, but more importantly,
Josh
Mm-hmm.
Steven
I’m going to get it close. This is a birdie opportunity. I’m within 100 yards. It’s an opportunity. All right, now take another shot. Pick another shot in your mind.
Josh
got it.
Steven
describe it?
Josh
It was a 146, I believe it was, downhill par three. So I was hitting a full pitching wedge. A pin was on the left and I hit it 30 yards left into a hazard.
Steven
what happened during the swing.
Josh
That one, interestingly, I don’t know. And in fact, it’s funny we’re talking about this one because that one still sticks out to me as, I know it’s weird just to like, this round was a while back. I’m actually thinking of maybe a more visual round than the most recent one I’ve played. But that one kind of stuck out to me of why did that go so far left? Right, things felt fine.
Steven
Okay, so, right, so again, you have a pitching wedge, which is a scoring club for you, right?
Josh
It was a par 3, so was just a downhill green.
Steven
downhill grill, green, okay. You know, which is an easy shot. It’s an easy shot, okay. So what it is is, and these things happen very subtly, you were licking your chops.
Josh
It was an easy shot to talk about kind of, yeah,
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Steven
I get this close.
Josh
Yeah, it was probably similar to that other one.
Steven
So you’re probably a little too quick in the transition.
Josh
Hmm. Yes, I actually filmed both of these shots. So I know that I was.
Steven
Were you?
We, you were quick in the transition, right? Right. All right. So this brings another point up and that is it’s the experience of time, which controls the muscles. Okay. When you experience time normally, which you did not in that shot, though, if you dropped the second ball and discussed, you would have, it’s a second shot syndrome, right? So you were, I,
Josh
Yes.
Steven
top of the swing you were over anticipating an action that has not yet occurred, even though it’s going to occur in a fraction of a second, correct? Right?
Josh
Hmm, I’ve never heard it said that way, but yeah.
Steven
You were over anticipating an action that has not yet occurred at the top of your swing. Because, hey, downhill, shoo, come on, right? And so time was distorted. Now, the interesting thing about time, I’ll tell you the latest Fluid Cube, okay, is that the dynamics, the subtle dynamics that happen on that shot, Josh, is the mind got to the hole before the ball did.
Josh
Yeah.
Steven
The mind at the top of the swing, the mind was already at the hole.
Josh
Yeah.
Steven
and correct, just think about it, okay? Just, you know, do the shot again in your mind. And the ball was behind the mine. You don’t want the ball behind the…
Because that’s not how it’s occurring. You want the ball in front of the mind. So you want the ball, you can try this, giving you something to try, all right, with putting especially because usually with putting the mind gets to the hole way before the ball gets to the hole because you’re so intent, right? That you want the mind to get to the target. I mean the ball to get to the target before the mind gets to the target. Very subtle dynamic.
Josh
Mmm.
Steven
Okay? And this explains Tiger’s quote, there have been key shots in major tournaments where I took the club out of the bag and I didn’t remember anything until I saw the ball in the air.
His mind is soaked in silence. So it you know very unusual to Be able to do that under the gun so these subtle dynamics and Again when the mind gets to the target before the ball How did the mind get to the target before the ball the PFC had to be online? Because that’s what’s that’s what’s controlling the mind
Josh
Right.
Definitely.
Definitely. I think back to those and it was, I am thinking about how to hit this shot to get the ball to go to where I want it to go.
Steven
So, this is, the PFC is the killer in a swing, okay? And once you stood behind that ball with your pitching wedge, You immediately inputted all the processes necessary to execute the motion. You have programmed the computer. But what you did is you reprogrammed it about 10 times. Because you were licking your chops. I can get this close. Same thing with that 80 yard wedge, okay?
So you’ve inputted so many processes in the brain physiology that in the transition the cerebellum doesn’t know what process to acknowledge. There’s so much going on up there.
Josh
Hmm.
Steven
So one look, I’m done, boom. That’s what happens on the second shot syndrome. One look, I’m done, pull the trigger. The shot that you missed, a lot of looks.
Josh
So is it as simple as instead of trying and controlling, I need to let go? Like is it as simple as that?
Steven
You know what, Josh? It is.
You already know what you have to do. Muscle memory doesn’t break down. Did you know that muscle memory doesn’t break down?
Josh
Right.
muscles don’t have memory, I guess, first of all.
Steven
No, you can say motion memory doesn’t break down. The pathways that you have established don’t break down. Did you know they don’t break down? Otherwise you’d have to…
Josh
Mm, right, right. And let’s interrupt it.
Steven
Right, what breaks down is the ability to access it. So why do think you have to reinvent the swing by keep thinking about technique? You’re going against the grain.
Josh
Right, you’re maybe afraid to let go of control or someone might say, really need to make this ball go where I want it to go because I’m afraid if I let go of where it could go.
Steven
Good luck in your career.
Josh
yeah yeah yeah the shots that I’ve hit like that I have been lackluster I’ve had a lot of them like that
Steven
Yeah, because you think, here’s another dangerous axiom, that’s the right word, intention does not equate to execution.
Now think about that Josh. Intention, focus, concentration does not equate to execution. The only thing that equates to execution is quality of silence during the motion.
Josh
Yes. Yeah. All of those are loud, but almost.
Steven
No, not almost.
Josh
They are.
Steven
Tiger, took the club out of the bag, didn’t remember anything. whoever wins that week on the PGA Tour…
Josh
Yeah.
Steven
because their swing was working, why do you think their swing was working? Why do think they had so much touch around the greens or control the speed and distance with their putter? Do you think it’s because they were more focused? If you sat down with them, did you feel more focused out there, Mr. current week PGA winner? No. Half the shots I don’t even remember.
So, shouldn’t that be your default space? That should be your default space. You should be practicing accessing that space. But what’s happening is you’re just hoping and praying it shows up by, just by chance, Josh. Okay.
Josh
Hmm.
Mm.
Yeah. Almost by trying hard. I’m trying hard to access quiet. that’s like saying I’m going to make myself fall asleep or something like that. That’s crazy.
Steven
You can’t do that. That’s why, you know, here’s the thing, all the sports psychologists want them to have a quiet mind. Would you agree?
Josh
Yes, that’s a pretty resounding quality.
Steven
Do you think that by telling them to have a quiet mind, they’re going to have a quiet mind? No.
Josh
Right, go out there and have a quiet mind, yeah.
Steven
Go out there, you know, so you have to set up very subtle conditions. That’s why it took a long time to develop this program. You have to tip toe in there. You can’t, you know, have a banner with a loudspeaker. It’s not going to work. It won’t work. You know, when you think of your best rounds, your best shots, half the shots you don’t even remember what happened, right?
Josh
Yeah.
Hmm.
For sure, for sure. It was quiet, peaceful, yeah.
Steven
For everybody. It’s always the same. Why aren’t you practicing that?
Josh
Right because
You know, that’s such a good, I mean, it’s such a, talk about universality. It’s such a universal thing with golfers. And yet I, man, I don’t know why I would venture away from that and get so caught up in how do I hit this golf ball when I know how to hit this golf ball.
Steven
because you don’t have plan B.
Josh
Hmm, right.
Steven
You only have plan A. What’s plan B? Plan B is this program. That’s what plan B is, essentially. Would you agree?
Josh
I mean, I would absolutely agree that in the universal principle that you’re talking about. And of course, I mean, the fact that your program teaches you how to get there, then yeah, that sounds about right.
Steven
So here’s the thing, if someone doesn’t speak, talk about wholeness, I’m uninterested in hearing them.
Josh
Hmm. Hmm.
Steven
You’re not, you know, I don’t care about this or that. I mean, yes, it has its validity, okay? But it’s not understanding the core. It’s like having a business and not understanding your core business. What is this business all about? So should Retella and they all need to, they should, okay? Again, they have their way of doing it and they’ve been successful, okay?
continue to be successful. Could they be more successful? Yes. It’s no question they could be more successful. Because they would understand the dynamics of why they’re successful, first of all, which would take them to another level. And know, Goway, I read the Intergame of Tennis, it was the first sports psychology book, came out in 75. And know, Goway doesn’t teach sports anymore, okay? He’s in the business, the whole business thing. Why doesn’t he teach sports?
Josh
Yes.
Steven
because he understood the goal but did not have the technique.
Josh
Right.
Steven
He had one technique, bounce, hit, bounce, walk, bounce, something like that. It breaks down. Okay? You need the technique. You need techniques. You just can’t describe the goal eloquently, eloquently and beautifully and expect someone just to walk down the path and get to the goal. It doesn’t work like
Josh
Yeah.
Mm.
Yes, that’s what I have heard from other people, but I’ve seen myself is the, yeah, right. Yeah. Have a quiet mind. Play like an athlete or play like a kid or something like that. That’s the goal.
Steven
You read these books, okay, you’ve read them, right?
Hit like you’re hitting it into the ocean, know, all these things, all right? So, you know, you’re a seasoned veteran of noncompliance.
Josh
Yeah.
I mean, that sounds like a lot of us are.
Steven
all of you are the majority, 98%, 95%. Because, and you can’t blame people, that’s the environment that we’ve grown up with with instruction. When Fred Travis told me, I don’t know, 15 years ago, Stephen, you know, once you’ve grooved the motion, the motion can’t break down. What breaks down is the ability to access. That changes everything. You know, that changes everything.
completely changes everything. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel on every shot.
Josh
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s almost like, I mean, that totally changes swing instruction, right? Or even the need for an instructor.
Steven
That’s a hard, I’m in my computer. Well, no, you need an instructor, okay? You need, but you need an instructor. You need a swing instructor, but you need a swing instructor to teach the way I describe, teach it. I’m not a swing instructor. I can’t teach a beginner. It’s not my thing, okay? But the swing instructor can accelerate the, there’s two things in learning how to play golf. One is learning the swing, and two,
Josh
Okay. Okay.
Steven
is learning how to access it. So if you learn the swing but you don’t learn how to access it and it’s just hit or miss, you know.
Yeah, you know, you’ll probably get frustrated out there.
Josh
I want to, I’ll let you go. I want to, I want to know, cause you’ve used the term wholeness a lot and wholeness is, at the core. So what would be another term for wholeness?
Steven
abstraction.
Josh
Okay. abstraction. What do mean?
Steven
How do you understand abstract?
Josh
to something like an abstract, something that is abstract is, it lacks definitive lines. It’s more ethereal. Right. Okay.
Steven
Right, the opposite of concrete. I like ethereal, okay? Is Tiger’s quote ethereal? Key shot’s major, the ultimate ethereal? So abstract means there’s no concrete criteria.
Josh
Yeah.
Steven
You’re not evaluating where you got the club or you’re not even evaluating how you hit the shot. Though of course you’ll always look to see where you hit the shot.
Josh
That’s awesome. Stephen, thank you. I can’t believe it’s already been an hour. Yeah, do you have anything else to say?
Steven
Well, I have three things to say. One, buy my book, Simplicity. Two, go to my website, stevenyellin.com, see if you’re interested in buying the videos, go through the whole program. But if you really want to do something special for yourself and change your game and your life forever, come and see me in Vero Beach and spend two days and go through the program. It’ll be life-transforming.
Josh
Ok. Yes, Simplicity.
And I’ve been to Vero Beach, it’s really nice.
Steven
Yeah, it’s very nice.
Josh
Okay, Stephen, thank you so much. This was a pleasure.
Steven
Josh, this is one of the better ones that I’ve done, in my opinion. You asked very poignant, intelligent questions. You went very deep.
Josh
That’s awesome.
Oh, thank you.
Steven
You’re welcome.
