Podcast Transcript
Josh Nichols
Alright, Peter Melton, what is wrong with the sentence, how well I play and how well I score are the same thing?
Peter Melton
Hmm, just everything. Well, I guess it depends what you’re aiming for, right? So it depends what you’re up to. And that’s the question that we don’t ask ourselves. What am I doing here? Why am I playing? Right. We don’t ask that anywhere near enough. And so we get lost in this idea. And I did for three frickin decades that my score equaled my happiness. And so when someone asked me, well, how did you play? I said, ah, shit, I got all this and this and this. It’s like in the book, it says, I didn’t ask you how you scored. I asked you how you played.
And so, oh, right, and these kind of just little chiropractic moves, I call them sometimes, this little adjustment of your perspective, right? It’s like, oh, never really thought of it that way. And it’s like, no, no, you haven’t. And that’s why I’m here. And that’s my joy to dare to help people see their golf game in a different way and therefore see their life in a different way because the parallels are incredible.
Josh Nichols
For sure. So if someone asked you, did you play? Or let’s do it this way. If you asked someone else, how did you play? What would you hope that they would say?
Peter Melton
Yeah, thanks. I actually think you had it right the first time because I get to go through this. People say, well, how did you play? And I start to go into my scoring, right? I start to go, man, if I just could have hit my, wait, right? And I have to catch myself and I say, wait a minute, one moment, thank you, let me answer that again. How did I play? I freaking love this game. And there was so much beauty and my friends and the animals and the exercise. There’s a hundred beautiful things about golf that have nothing to do with your score.
But we get caught up in this results situated culture that we have that it’s all about my results and my value is all about my results and my happiness is based on my results. And so you play for four and a half hours hoping to get to the end of the round to have a good enough score to say that you were happy. But you pass those four and a half hours and you don’t get to get them back. Right. It doesn’t work.
But if we don’t ever slow down enough to catch what’s going on, then we can be lost in our score and our frustration and unhappiness for decades, which is what caused me to get to where I am now and to write a book and dare to share my, what I think is kind of funny, zany, painful, but now wonderful adventure with golf.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, so Conversations with Parr, that’s your book. The whole idea is someone is having a conversation in their own mind with this entity named Parr. How similar is that to an experience you had in real life?
Peter Melton
Yeah, thank you. That’s a really good question. The frustration built and built and what happened for me was a quick backstory. The way this all came to be is, is I got, played as a young person. I played high school, played junior college, I got to an eight. I love the game, but then I stopped playing and I stopped practicing and I kept having the expectation that I should be able to find it still. I should still be able to go and shoot a solid bogey round of golf, but I couldn’t.
And over and over and I didn’t want to practice and I didn’t play enough and it’s like, it’s in here, I know it, I should be able to figure this out. And I got stuck in that, literally Josh, for 30 years. And I played very inconsistent golf and got to a point where I didn’t enjoy it and got to a point where I quit and took up disc golf and couldn’t figure it out on my own and wasn’t willing to pay somebody to help me and was too stubborn, I guess, in some regard to think that I couldn’t figure it out.
But there’s so much going on in the golf swing, just the swing, let alone what’s underneath it, right? That I never figured it out. And I had a day where my brother called me and said, come be our ringer at this scramble. My company’s playing in, right? I’m like, I’m there. I’m even going to practice a couple days beforehand, right? And here we go. And I was terrible. I think they used three of my shots the whole day practically, right? So I’m just crazy. And he looked at me and says, what are you doing?
Like, I don’t know, it’s in here. I don’t know why it’s not coming out. And so that, I just got to a point of frustration and, and the point of frustration led me to try to figure it out. Right. So, okay, Peter, I got to figure this out. And it actually came upon in an interesting way too. My dad retired and started playing all the time and was not enjoying himself. He’d come back from around the golf and it’d be like, if I could only potter that damn 12th hole or every number of a zillion things. Right. That affect your score and therefore he was letting that affect his happiness.
And I’m like, dad, no, you’re killing my American dream. Supposed to retire and play golf three times a week and frigging love it. And you’re, you’re bothered. I’m like, man, don’t you see it? Don’t you get the exercise and your buddies and a beer and a dog and beautiful places and excuse to travel. It’s like,
And anyway, then my mom retired and she said, Peter, you got to teach me how to golf. Said, great, but you can’t get upset like dad. You’re a 65 year old woman. You’re not going to hit the ball very far. You’re probably not going to practice. You’re only going to play occasionally. You got to have a different way of doing it. She said, okay, thanks. Right. And I taught her a little bit about the swing and the first few times you go out, it’s easy to be happy with golf. But the fifth time I think it is you, you start having expectations, right? And it’s like, wait, I know I can hit better than this. So, but I’m not, and it bothers me, because we judge ourselves so much.
And like I said, we have to acknowledge our culture is so incredibly results-based, that that’s in there for everybody. And that your value and your worth is tied to it for so many people. And everybody gets a little different story about that, but we’ll get into that later too. So mom calls me up and she says, hey, I’m starting to get upset with myself. I’m like, no. Right. She said, how do you play without being upset? I said, I don’t know. Cause I was already 10 years probably into being stuck. Said, I don’t know, mom. I can’t figure it out for myself. I get upset and I’m supposed to be the guy who understands what’s going on at least a little bit.
And she said, well, you have to figure it out. And I’m like, I do have to figure it out. This is the game of my life. I grew up near a golf course, lot of time at the practice range, worked at the golf course. Snuck on at night and played a few holes, right? All of it. It’s just the game was such a beautiful part of my childhood. I’m like, I’ve got to figure it out. And so this all really kicked in at that moment when I said, okay, so what’s wrong? Why do I get upset at golf is because the ball doesn’t go where I want it to go. So clearly the problem is the ball. What if I played golf without a ball and I started playing golf without a ball? Talk about a mental golf exercise.
So when you play without a ball, it’s quite fascinating because now this importance of your mental game, the importance of your visualization skills come right to the top and you do everything else the same. Pay your green fees, tee it up, practice swing, then come up to ball, address it, hit it. I have to see where it goes because I have to go find it. Right? So you visualize the shot, pick up your bag, go down there, find it. Okay. Here’s my eight iron. Where do I visualize it goes? How good of a shot am I willing to give myself? What is inside of me that’s now coming out that I can believe about myself?
And because I’d been a pretty good golfer, I was able to, you know, okay, hey, 15 feet, right? Go up there, mark the ball, pull the pin. Okay, am I gonna make this? I don’t know, right? Your mind just goes to so many different places that it never goes in a regular game because you’re worried about the next shot, your buddy’s shot, your last shot, the next hole that you don’t like. The weather, the birds chirping, whatever you find yourself confused by is gone. And you are in this little golfing heaven where you get to decide. So here comes my 15 footer, clang, clang, clang, birdie, right? In the hole, right down to three, charge off to the next hole. And you do that for a couple of holes and just start sinking into all the beauty that’s available if you didn’t have this little judgment tool of a golf ball.
And so that’s what started it. That’s what started for me. Like, Peter, you’re really weird. That’s way out there. That’s crazy. Right? Like I already knew I was weird. So it made it a little easier for myself, but I’m like, there’s something here. They talk about how important the mental game is, but how do you practice it? And what part of the mental game is designed for your enjoyment as opposed to the mental game designed for your improvement in scoring?
And those become two sides of a coin because so much of the mental golf training is designed for the good golfer trying to be better looking for that extra stroke somehow or whatever that quest for better that we never get complete on because as soon as you yearn to break 90, then you yearn to break 85 and then it’s 80 and then it’s 75. And obviously the lower you go, the harder that becomes. Everyone’s quest for better ends up at frustration or 99 % of them.
So it doesn’t work. So it’s important and it helps, but what part of your mental training can you do that helps you enjoy the process for the 90 % of people who aren’t playing competitive golf in particular, you know, the higher up you get, you’ve got to focus in a different way and you’ve got to practice in a different way and you’ve got to fine tune a lot of different things.
But like with your conversation with Gary Waters went into, it’s like even when those guys at the top level, even to the level that you’ve gotten to, it’s like, where’s that inner joy? What part does my inner joy play in my desire to practice more, my desire to just enjoy whatever happens? Right? Yeah, so, whew, there was a mouthful.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. So the idea of, that was awesome, that was awesome. Do you see results as like, or score as like naughty words, as bad things, quote unquote bad things?
Peter Melton
I think it’s a process for me was a process because that’s where I went first. It’s like, OK, my score doesn’t matter since I’m not doing good. It doesn’t matter. I’m gonna hit Mulligans. I’m gonna, you know, and even when I started doing this way, it’s like, you know, my visualization wanted me to make all birdies and I did play around and, you know, birdie all the part, all of them and Eagle par fives and just see what that feels like. Dare to feel great golf, but then also dare to feel OK, I could shank one into the trees and then make a great recovery and knock one in from 100 yards.
Right? So it reframed what score is. And in the book, Parr says there’s so much more than just your score. And that’s another one of those, wait, what’s real about that for me? What else is important to me? How much attention am I paying to the camaraderie and the exercise and the beauty of nature and the animal sounds, whatever the beer, right? It’s like, what else, what else goes into the equation of me enjoying golf? So score becomes that first enemy, if you will, right? You hit it on the head. It’s like, oh, the hell with score then I’m not going to keep score. It doesn’t matter. Whatever. And you try to push that away.
And then that’s another dance for yourself because it lives in there. You want to do better. You know, every single swing you’re doing the best that you can and results may vary. Right. And then this is the key to the whole book, right? Is, is you’re doing the best you can. It goes wherever it goes. And then you’ve got to be with yourself amidst where it went.
And this is the parallel to life. Every day we do the best we know how to do. Results go all over the place. And who am I amidst the results that showed up? And can I just be what, what level of peace can I create in my system to say, hey, I did the best and I messed up this thing at work, or I did something stupid in my relationship, or I’m not taking care of myself, or I didn’t do this thing I promised or whatever comes up in life is such an incredible microcosm in golf. Because you’re playing in this little microcosm, this little bubble of judgment or the potential for judgment just waiting at every turn. And who am I amidst where the ball goes?
Josh Nichols
I love that. Something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately is security versus insecurity and the…
The more insecure you are, the more you feel like you need to explain when a shot went bad. The more a mistake will make you change and now you go up and down, you’re on a roller coaster of emotions along with your results. But the more secure you are, AKA the maybe the more solidified your identity is, the more assured of who you are at a deeper level, the less these things rock your boat, the less mistakes and successes too will define you and make you overjoyed or underjoyed and frustrated and angry.
Someone who’s more secure is much more resilient and probably, I mean, gonna give themselves the best chance to play well. So it is, right, yes, play well and score well, right? A key distinction that I struggle with making because when I say play well, I’m thinking, yeah, score well. But what do you think about security and insecurity and identity and things like that?
Peter Melton
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I mean, that’s it. That’s the whole deal. There’s an outer golfer and an inner golfer as I frame it. The more you work on the outer stuff, I got to work on my swing, I got to have this, I’ve got to… And then even a lot of the knowledge that we have ends up staying in our outer protection layer.
And that’s what the excuses are all these different things. There’s the outer golfer that’s trying to figure out the outer side, the physical swing, obviously very important. You’ve got to have a swing, but who am I amidst what happens is the inner golfer, right? And that’s where the security comes. There’s an outer security too. You build a shell to protect yourself in the outer world too. And that’s the whole ego thing that we all deal with. And again, another very, you’ve got to acknowledge, I think.
It serves to acknowledge that there is a massive cultural wind of judgment and results and ego and more is better that our USA in particular Western culture has just marinated you in your whole 35 years or how old are you? Right. Yeah. So I’m 63 and I’ve been feeling that now for the last 40 years. Right. Because I caught on to that pretty early too, and I’ve got to acknowledge, wait, there’s a lot pushing me. And it all ends up in this outside stuff. There’s very little that pushes you to dare to look inside and deal with your fears and insecurities, because that’s incredibly uncomfortable. And our culture doesn’t speak to that.
If you’re lucky, you end up with some people in your world that point you that direction. And maybe you get to go to a workshop or read a book. Or I saw you do Eckhart Tolle. I think it’s Tolle, who knows? We’ll keep him different names. I read that book a long time ago too. Powerful. It’s like, wow, what is my relationship to time and what do I let the past do and how caught up am I in my future? Right? It’s like, wow, nobody ever told me that. Right? It’s like, we don’t get the necessary instructions to navigate this whole system.
We get the instructions of how to work hard and how to earn more and how to feel good because you got a new car or whatever. That’s well, well-doctrinated in there, but very rarely and only if you’re in my experience, I’m glad that this showed up in my world and that I got steered toward personal growth and I got steered toward daring to look deeper into myself and inner child work and all these different modalities of looking at ourselves and golf presents all of them. And you hit on identity.
Because that core identity that who you decided you were usually before you’re five or six years old, right? And I’ll just tell a quick story on that is, that you come, I mean, just dare to imagine, right? This is another one of those chiropractors dare to imagine here you are, you come to life somehow, right? And your mother and everything and there’s something in there that knows what to do, right? And your system knows what to do and starts dividing and making kidneys and livers and arms and legs. And something knows what it’s doing. And here I am. OK, right. Not necessarily knowing that that’s me, right, that I am that spark of infinite intelligence that is crafting a baby in my mom’s belly.
I come up with this identity that, wow, I’m just along for some ride and something else is doing this. And then you’re birthed out of your mother and you go into a world that’s I forget how the totals, but I don’t know, 30 degrees colder and bazillion degrees brighter. And and you’re like, ah, right. And it’s called it’s called birth trauma that it’s in your system. It’s like, what the hell, right? There’s part of me that thinks it knows that everything’s OK. But there’s a big part of me that’s very confused. Cut off the cord. Put me back in at the cord. Slap you in the butt and say, here you are. Right. And you’re. That’s a baby cried. Right. It’s like.
And if you could dare to imagine and connect to that, that beingness. That’s like went from this totally nurtured world that had everything taken care of into this world. Then the magic that is you somehow decides that it’s not going to, we’re not going to tell you that it’s you. You’re going to try to figure this out on your own. And this is in my philosophy, the game of life, right? That the magic of life decided to forget so that it could go through this adventure we call life to see what we might remember and what we might not remember, right?
We are this magic cleverly disguised. I’m the magic of the universe who built myself in my mom’s belly, right? Cleverly disguised as Peter trying to figure out this crazy world out there. And that all circles back into your identity. And then as a young boy, don’t get what, you know, all the stuff’s not provided anymore, right? Now you want something and you don’t get it. And this person who supposedly loves you has to tell you no.
And you’re like, wait, what? I used to get everything, right? And now I’m not getting everything. So what’s up? Is it me? What’s wrong with me? Did I do something wrong? Am I bad? Am I not enough? Do I matter? Do you love me? You, right? And this young system is in there going, what’s going on? And to protect itself is what’s called your survival identity. And to protect yourself, you build your protection in there. To say, ooh, I don’t want to feel that again. I better play it safe. I better not express myself fully. Better not whatever your system, yeah, whatever your parental family unit system and everybody’s was different, but they all led to a similar kind of story.
Something happens in your system and you have to make up because you don’t have the infinite intelligence anymore that got turned off for the thrill of this journey we call life, right? Because if we knew everything the whole time, I’m sure that’s probably happening in some parallel universe somewhere where you’re born and you remember that you’re the magic of the universe and we see that. That’d be a fun movie to write sometime. But I think that infinite life has tried that and is daring to try something different, right? Because if you have infinity to play with, you would get around eventually to this, right? It’s like infinite life has tried it all. That’s how I see it. That’s the only way it makes sense to me why a world would get created this way if it wasn’t for this thrill of the journey of remembering and forgetting and seeing what happens along the way.
So this survival identity builds itself to play it safe and to survive and not to thrive. Then we put on top of that the ego and our system and then maybe somebody like you, let’s just point at you. You get raised in a golf family, you want to be a golfer, you start being a good golfer, but you’ve got whatever stuff in there that is still in survival mode that doesn’t realize it’s running the show.
And your outer golfer thinks it’s running the show and we get all the info and we do everything we can. And the outer guy thinks it knows what it’s doing, but the inner guy’s telling the story that what that’s why you can go out and shoot five under par someday or whatever some great score for yourself. And then the next day still feel that insecurity. Still feel that. No. Could I do that again? Am I going to be able that felt great? I know I’m a good golfer and there went the shank. And now what is happening now? I don’t get, I don’t know.
Josh Nichols
This protectiveness that we go into, the protective layer, this kind of playing small, playing safe, not daring to express ourselves. Oh my goodness. It feels trivial to even parallel this to golf, because golf, yes, it’s a parallel, but man, just, it pales in comparison to the vastness of infinity, right? But how does this kind of protectiveness, playing safe, playing small come into golf?
Peter Melton
Yeah, because it’s a safe bubble to explore this in. This is what I think is the greatest part of this whole philosophy is that narrowing it down to your golf game, while very trivial, it gives you the chance to experience it a little bit. It gives you a chance to see that this inner golfer in me has its own beliefs about what it can and can’t do and its own insecurity about whether I’m good enough to do well in this tournament, whether I deserve to win, whether I deserve to get this low, whether I’ll, you know, I usually give up when it gets hard or whatever story is in there is blaring out and your outer guy is trying to control it, but it’s still running the show.
And, and what can happen, the gift here, the gift that’s available is for the outer guy to go in, right? Cause the way out is through the is in right is for the outer golfer. And this is what I’m trying to do with my book. And what I’m calling golf enjoyment coaching is what I’m calling what I’m what I’m aiming to do here. Yeah, thank you. It’s like it’s that whole other side of the coin. I don’t care what your score is. But by figuring out how to enjoy yourself, you’re very likely to end up with better scores and not having so much weight on what that score might be. So let’s dare to enjoy our life. Let’s dare to enjoy our golf. And see what happens after that because if you’ve got that inner enjoyment, right, if you’re playing for the enjoyment, then where it goes doesn’t have to control things.
Okay. So golf gives you that chance to do the best you can. There I am on the first tee all excited and boy, I want to do good. And my practice session was good. And here I go. Right. Embarrassed first tee. There’s even, you know, people watching and I was gonna do good. And now I’m shanked under that tree. And then, right, then the inner guy gets to play because the other guy’s freaked out and your nervous system, this is what’s happening in your survival identity is your nervous system wanting to be safe, but not feeling safe, almost no matter what, it’s built to not feel safe. It’s built to watch for every possible threat. And then whenever anything happens, it goes see told you.
Told you that car was going to pull out. Told you that person wasn’t going to do what they said. I told you I wasn’t going to get that. And it just keeps accumulating all this proof that it’s not safe. Right. And so the outer golfer, our outer selves dare to go inside and find that guy. Right. And it’s funny, I was just journaling yesterday because these conversations style of exploration is powerful for me and it works for some people. But to dare to talk to golf.
Right. And I’ve dared to talk to God. In fact, that’s where it started for me was a book called Conversations with God by Neil Donald Walsh, where this man who was struggling most of his life dared to say, what the heck’s going on? Right. And then started hearing some ideas and things coming through him that helped him make sense. And it was an incredibly popular book in the nineties. And still, he’s still writing books and still touching people’s lives everywhere because it gives you a chance to see this bigger picture.
That our culture doesn’t present very often and a lot of religions don’t present. A lot of things go toward that same results and judgment and stuff and that’s one way to do it and however it works for you, hooray. But the way it works for me is that I wanted a system that didn’t need to be based on judgment. And I needed to know myself as somebody who didn’t need to be so much in judgment and could just realize I’m doing the best I can and we’ll see what happens and we’ll make the most of it from there.
And so when you go into the little guy inside, right, because little inner Josh has been built to protect himself. And so when real Josh, when today Josh, when now Josh goes, hey, wow, I think you’re in there somewhere, right? I want to find you. You in there? I think I am in here. Right. It’s like, wow. Oh my God. I just learned about you. I didn’t know you’ve been there. I didn’t know I was here either. Right. It’s like, I just been trying to be safe here somehow. I could just imagine a little kid kind of hiding in a closet almost. Right. It’s like, how can I be safe?
And so then, then now Josh comes in and says, where are you? Where are you? And gets him, opens the closet door and reveals that there’s this little kid and he’s without knowing it’s been running the show. I’m like, oh my God, I just realized you’ve been running so much of my stuff. I’ve tried to cover you up. I tried to handle it all on the outside. But your need to feel safe has been running this whole thing. We need to work together. You are valuable. You are safe. I need you. Right? I need us to work together. This is inner child work is what’s called in some of the psychological.
But daring to go find that guy and and then when you bring him out, it’s like, oh my god. Right the other day I was at the beach and I’m like I’m jumping in the water with my little guy, right? It’s like it’s scary. It’s cold out there still but friggin right going in the water. Come on we’re going in the water, right and right. That’s not safe. I’ve never done this before. Right, imagine some little kid who’s lived his whole life in a closet, right? And it’s like we’re going in, we’re okay. I got you.
And now all of sudden this inner guy who’s felt unsafe his whole life is now feeling like, wow, that thing is back. That spark that knew what it was doing, that something that cared about me and guided me, it’s here. I’ve been inside it the whole time. Right? Oh my God. And so then you begin to build a relationship with the deeper parts of yourself and you have a chance to then live in this knowingness.
That, oh my God, that program that was running me doesn’t need to run me all the time. It’s still gonna show up. It’s still gonna scream. But then you get to go, wait, buddy, hang on, what’s happening there? This isn’t safe. This person won’t do what they say they’re gonna do or whatever, right? It’s like, understand, thank you. There’s truth to that. And it’s not the whole truth, right? And it’s not who we are. And we can ask and we can dare to fully express, say, hey, I’m scared that you’re not gonna do what you said you were gonna do, right? And literally go there and show that it’s safe to confront these lies, these mistruths that your four-year-old self put in your protective brain, and now your 35-year-old self can say, we can do this. I gotcha.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Agreements. I’ve heard it termed agreements, right? Where you told a lie early on or a lie was, I’ve also heard it called, you were cursed as a, not like in a witchcraft sort of way, but a lie was told to you and you agreed with it and you never chose to question it or disagree with it. And the same goes for golf with the result-oriented culture. I mean, especially as the listeners of this podcast are here to figure out how to improve their scoring, right? That’s the whole thing. I’m not doing this to…
All of this is a means to an end, right? And the result-oriented kind of culture, you know, unstoppable wave that has happened just is, I mean, I guess for lack of better term, it’s a lie that we agreed to. Is that kind of how you’re seeing it?
Peter Melton
Yes, yeah, it is. And I’m daring to see the other side of the coin, right? Because to hear you say this whole show is about improving your scoring, right? It’s like, okay, but what part could your enjoyment play in improving your scoring? And we never asked that question. I don’t know that the question’s ever been asked in the history of the world, right? It’s like, it’s like, whoa, is that possible? Because we get so right in golf grind. You gotta hit a hundred pitching wedges and figure out exactly how far that thing goes and how much it’s going to spend and all the XYZ. And that’s the way we have learned to get better. And there’s a big part of that that has to happen in order for you to be a highly competitive golfer. And what role could enjoyment play in your progress as a highly competitive golfer?
Josh Nichols
Yes, it’s seen as either you have to grind and be miserable and be uncomfortable and be hardcore disciplined and self-critical and perfectionistic, or you can just let it go and enjoy it and be okay being a bad golfer. It’s this false dichotomy that we’ve set up. And enjoyment is really just another arrow in the quiver instead of you have to throw away the whole quiver and try something else. It’s just, it’s another one. And it is the quiver maybe is a better way to put it.
Peter Melton
Well, that’s yeah, thank you. Cause that’s, where I was going in my mind. I’m like, is it really just another tool or is it the bag? Right. Because for, mean, your show may be a little different than some others I’ve been on, but if you’re a highly competitive golfer trying to be a more highly competitive golfer, I get that enjoyment doesn’t seem like it fits that much. You would like to enjoy, you enjoy when you do good. You get your enjoyment when you do, but by and large, the the higher level golfers that I’ve spoken to, that doesn’t seem like the way you do it. That’s not a priority and it’s not a path that’s presented and there’s not some, you know, although Scheffler, I could say, feels like a different vibe on that, right? That he seems to have just a piece within him that I think enjoys. He gets second place and he goes, good for Tommy, right? Or whatever, right? He’s like, this isn’t my life. I’ve got my faith in my family and right? It’s like, this is just a game.
So he’s presenting it a little bit of a glimpse into there. And so, but I think for the 95 % of golfers who aren’t highly competitive, right? That this aspect becomes the quiver. Like I want to enjoy this. I’m not going to practice enough to lower my handicap very much. And why did I think lowering my handicap was really going to do anything for me anyway? Right? It’s like, I just get to play with fewer strokes. I don’t get as many strokes. That doesn’t make much sense. It’s like, of course I want the label of a 10 or a five or a scratch or whatever. Right.
And that’s again, that outer guy thinking he can take care of the inner guy by having a label and by having a new house or the trophy or whatever, until that realization hits that, oh my God, the kid doesn’t ever hear any of that. The, the scared child inside of me never gets any of that. I think I’m feeding him, but I’m not. He’s just hearing the times when he’s not safe, you know?
Josh Nichols
Okay, Peter, this was unbelievable. Conversations with Par, I’ll have a link to it. Thank you so much, man. This was such a pleasure. Truly fascinating, Peter, thank you.
