Podcast Transcript
Josh Nichols
You are one of the best in the world at occupational therapy, physical therapy, upper extremity, rehab, specialize in golf injuries, you’re TPI M3 certified, and you qualified for the 2024 US Mid-Amateur. How on earth are you good at all of that at the same time?
Rye Stinson
A lot of luck there and I think you just try to surround yourself with enough people smarter than you and enough support around you. So I get to be around a lot of really cool people and that help make lots of cool things possible for me.
Josh Nichols
Okay, how are you so good at golf while also being so good at, so successful professionally?
Rye Stinson
Ew. I…
think one of the things that I enjoy most, both professionally and helping people find joy in accomplishing is the process of things. So I love learning new things. if I said, like if you said, well, what’s one of your skills as a golfer? Like I swing pretty fast, I get pretty far and whatever. But I’m pretty good at learning new things.
And sometimes that can be a challenge or a detriment. You can kind of be a master of nothing and sort of like, I can do that. I can do this. But if kind of harnessed in a reasonable way, to me, if somebody would see me practicing or whatever, he’s grinding. I’m having a great time. I’m just happier than a pig in mud going through some whatever, a putting drill or whatnot. I find a lot of joy in that.
Yeah, I like doing different things. So I’ve played a number of different sports and it’s fortunate enough to play them without too many injuries at a pretty reasonable level. yeah, it’s just fun. I, yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Okay, so do you get with that joy of practicing, do you get to practice? Obviously we’re coming out of winter right now, but do you get to practice a lot?
Rye Stinson
Yeah. I would say I would like to be able to play more and practice more efficiently. That’s why I think some of the stuff that you teach and share with others is so valuable in terms of optimizing your time. I’m a true believer that time is the most valuable currency that we have. We kind of tend to find a way to spend it on things that we really care about and enjoy.
So I’ve also from like, let’s say like a school background or studying or teaching or whatnot, I would rather do a little bit or I take a chunk of time and be incredibly immersed in that versus a whole bunch of sort of fluffy stuff. And I think that’s something that can be very helpful, especially in the mid-ameter space. So if I can…
If I have 15 minutes and I can make it like a really awesome 15 minutes or if it can be longer, so on and so forth. I have surrounded myself, one of the things I always think about in terms of a clinical day and it’s as hard as a healthcare provider. like if you said this other healthcare provider, this guy’s got a pretty posh gig here. mean, I’m not on call and we have a beautiful simulator in our clinic. We’ve got, I’ve tried to set myself up for…
Josh Nichols
That’s awesome.
Rye Stinson
things that I love to do and take part in, practicing what you preach, so to speak. So yeah, I just enjoy that. So it’s kind of fun.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah.
Do you, are you, how proactive are you in your kind of life scheduling? Cause that, and you know, maybe, maybe I’ll kind of give, give everyone a peek behind the curtain. Most of my questions are on this podcast are thinly veiled, super selfish questions about my own self of like, I feel extremely busy and I also want to play good golf. I want to get back to the mid am yada yada.
But also everyone listening is extremely busy and wants to play gray golf. it’s, it’s, it’s helpful, I think through my, to, hear through my lens, what’s going on, but I feel like chaotically busy and I’m thinking, I also want to get good at golf or stay good at golf or get better at golf. And I just don’t know how, so how, how proactive are you in your
kind of planning your weeks or your days of like, I need to get golf in.
Rye Stinson
So my wife is on that side of incredibly organized, incredibly type A. If I told you my prep for like a test or if I’m going to give a talk for something, would be like, my God, that would be terrifying. I literally just, gave this talk to 150 people. That’s the first time I ran through the talk. I just showed up. But yeah, no, I used to pull things. mean,
Josh Nichols
Stop. Really?
Rye Stinson
I would write, I’d start the research for a 10 page research paper in college at 10 PM and it’s due at 8 AM kind of thing. Like I do a lot of that kind of crazy stuff. And I’ve, I’ve, I’ve toned down a lot of that. But one of the ways that I think about it, like if you said, right, you’ve got to write an eight page paper, it’s been assigned. I’m probably not going to write that paper until the night of on paper, but I write it slowly in my head.
Josh Nichols
Whoa.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, okay.
Rye Stinson
So I’ve sort of planned that out and I sort of see, okay, this is what I need to do here. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And then here’s my chunk of time. Excellent. Now that’s not always the world’s best thing when it comes to golf, cramming before an event sort of thing. That is certainly been something that I’ve struggled with. Like, oh, you’re trying to just sort of squeeze this in here versus chipping away at it. So I’ve had to adjust and adapt.
But I think that’s the skill that I try to value in myself and share with others the most is to have a very high adaptive capacity. That’s something that is a huge term in the world of occupational therapy. But meaning essentially if I can sort of see myself as I’m getting the most out of what I can possibly do. Like this is the best I can do and I’m somewhere in the middle of my horseshoe, right? And I can veer one way too much or too little of something. But the real skill is being able to notice that.
and have a way to work my way back. Like I have resources that I can turn to to say, I wanna get a little bit more of this, a little bit more of this. Now I’m back into my kind of performance zone, right? That’s the same way that I try to think about it for myself, as well as when I’m working with people clinically. And certainly when working with golfers and doing performance assessments and such, again, how do we get the most bang for our buck in terms of time and the things that we really, really need? And sometimes doing
Josh Nichols
Yes. Okay.
Rye Stinson
I don’t want to say simple things, but I’d say doing some of the key things incredibly well versus bouncing around to so many different things is such a valuable skill to continue to learn and develop. And I by no means have this mastered. I’m just learning like everybody else. I appreciate the kind words, but yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, and that’s… that’s… right.
Yeah, well, you know, you’re, because you’re aspirationally, you know, great at, great professionally, but also attaining something at the same time, right? It’s not like myself where I, the last Mid-Am I played in was because I was exempt from a Mid-Am multiple years before that, and I haven’t qualified for, I’ve never…
I haven’t qualified for a U.S. Mid-Am in almost 10 years. And so, and I’m, you know, I’ll toot my own horn. I’m a very good golfer and got to a very high level, but I, I’m, I haven’t qualified. I have tried qualifying for them, but it’s, it is simply like a, just don’t, maybe I think what you’re saying,
Rye Stinson
You certainly are. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
about trying bouncing around trying a bunch of different things as opposed to doing the few key things really, really well. I think that’s something I struggle with because I, I get a sense of in order to be productive, you have to do a lot of things, but true productivity is doing the few key things deeply with a high level of focus. So you feel like that’s kind of your
Rye Stinson
Mm.
Josh Nichols
quote unquote, superpower.
Rye Stinson
Yeah, what’s funny is I don’t, wouldn’t, know, it’s weird writing your own bio, right? You’re writing all this stuff down. You’re like, wow, this guy’s gonna sound pretty productive. Like I do a ton of different things. Like I’ve got this business, I’ve got that, was consulting private with all these other things. Obviously all the patients to see and all the teaching things. Like I just accepted an adjunct professorship this morning before this call. I don’t know what I’m doing with that. But like it’ll be on the way to the Vermont Open. Like I can sneak it in. So it’ll be really fun.
Josh Nichols
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Josh Nichols
Yes, that’s hilarious.
Rye Stinson
So I don’t really see it as like, if you said, right, pretty productive, I’d be like, I don’t know if I would even view myself that way. I just sort of see it as like, well, I’m trying to fill my day with things that I love to do. And I’m just continuing to build my day. So that doesn’t mean that there aren’t moments where things feel, oh my gosh, this was too much or too little. Of course there are, but I just sort of toggle back down and like, do I have to my space? Right.
Josh Nichols
Hmm, man.
Rye Stinson
you know, having resources and support around you to allow for that to happen, right? Like even if it’s a couple seemingly little things for this is set, that’s done, we’ve got dinner there, whatever. I mean, you know, I’m not doing this solo. I have a pretty great life partner. So like my wife’s amazing and she’s also an amazing physical therapist and OCS board certified and all the jazz. But yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
I’m not kidding,
Rye Stinson
I don’t know. I don’t know if I would be looking for a key thing, but I would say, what are the things that really allow when and how and why are you at your best for your moment or day? And then you say, well, hey, how can I fill my time in that way?
Josh Nichols
Yeah. So I know you’re like I mentioned at the top, you’re an expert in so many things and you’re
Rye Stinson
Well, first, let me stop you there. I don’t view myself as an expert. I don’t want to be an expert in anything. An expert in something is just somebody as an old Niles Bohr quote. I put this in presentations and things that came up with your valence electrons pretty. Yeah, anyway. That’s basically just somebody who’s made enough mistakes in a very narrow field. So I not I don’t don’t run around. I’m an expert of this. I’m sure that you okay, we can put those all the letters and things but like I just from a viewpoint.
Josh Nichols
Okay.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
I don’t really see myself as that. I see myself as somebody who’s learning, loves to learn, and I happen to have been around a number of things in a few very specific fields, so I can speak to those. And I enjoy doing it. That’s pretty much it.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, I love that. I love that definition though. An expert is someone who’s just like failed more than most in a very specific domain. I, that’s, mean, that’s, that’s super cool because you would think an expert is someone who has attained the most knowledge or attain the most experience, but in, a way it is that because, right, failing.
Rye Stinson
You think? You think?
Rye Stinson
But how do you learn? Right? You’re gonna make like, don’t remember learning anything. I say this to folks that I mentor and other clinics, I don’t remember. Do you remember learning anything from getting 100 on a test? Yeah, you went to the range, you flushed like 29 irons and what did you learn today? Not much, right?
Josh Nichols
right.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, it’s it and that’s like some empty confidence, right? That’s like a I can hit a bunch of nine irons in a row. Well, right
Rye Stinson
There’s some positives to that, like that feels really good. It can be kind of soothing, relaxing, there’s nothing wrong with that. You shouldn’t be on the range feeling terrible about hitting good shots and that’s not the concept of that. It’s just, was this a big learning process or so on and so forth? And sometimes learning is kind of hard. mean, it’s not like you…
wake up in the morning like, yeah, I know all these things about all these different diagnoses and all these different clinical scenarios and just how to say the right thing at the right time to make this blend at the right angle and all this stuff. Now, I think about that, you’ve got to have a chance to, to mess up to learn to practice and to get better.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Do you?
Josh Nichols
Okay, let’s see. Do you feel like you… This is a weird way to ask this question. Do you feel like you accidentally qualified for the U.S. Mid-Am? like, I showed up and who knows how it’s gonna go and I played good. Or did it feel like systematic?
Rye Stinson
No, no. definitely, it’s definitely a goal of mine. I kind of had a very shortened college career. My golf program got cut after a couple of years, so I never got the proper, the whole experience. Somebody is randomly knocking on my door, that’s weird.
Josh Nichols
You’re good. You can take it if you need. I can edit it out.
Rye Stinson
Yeah, me pause real quick.
Josh Nichols
You can do it, do it.
Rye Stinson
Yeah, but I’m doing a podcast. gotta come back for a bit. Sorry. It’s gonna be okay. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
Ugh.
Rye Stinson
man, so sorry. Guy coming for the dishwasher. So it’s basically said, do feel like you accidentally qualified for it or so on and so forth? I would say these are things that are always building, right? Like the number of times trying and failing. I missed a playoff by a stroke before and then the number of times I’ve had to withdraw from a mid-aim to either like rain delays kill me. Like I can’t cancel a bunch of patients to like.
Josh Nichols
All good, no worries.
Rye Stinson
Like I could be like, I’m second place after this Maryland minute. See ya. You just delayed it a day and you’re not gonna do 30, you know. So there’s so many different things. So I see it as something that’s building, it’s building. And for me to finally just say, let’s say go out and be comfortable and enjoy my process in that sort of environment was awesome. mean, and to your point earlier, it’s really hard. Like I’m not gonna lie to you. I don’t think I missed.
many shots, I played a very clean round of golf. my first four holes of that qualifier, four, five holes, I lipped out from inside of 10 feet and are just on the edge of everything in my playing partner. I was like, dude, just hang in there. And then I made a couple birdies, couple more. missed one, yeah, I missed one green, made one bogey.
and I didn’t even miss it in a bad spot. was just, I missed one and then, yeah, that ended up at what, three under? And like the rating at this course is about 74, 75. And in the Philly area, there’s just so many really good players. Like that ended up being a tie on a six-way playoff for two. And I happened to birdie the…
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
second playoff hole, is was a long par four and I hit it pretty far. So I had a huge advantage. So it was raining and I got to hit a little bit farther and I’m hitting the eight iron and other people are hitting a six or five or whatever. And was able to take advantage of that. And it was just a really special moment, but I was working very hard for that that year. had actually I torn my PCL. So I was in a big giant PCL brace playing pickup hockey.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Josh Nichols
Wow.
Rye Stinson
And I actually played Maryland amateur qualifier and open qualifier in my PCL brace, which is kind of a silly thing. was, I was, I made it into one of them and this is by the other one by stroke. They got in as an alternate, think to Maryland open or whatever, but I’m playing and like, you can picture a big giant like PC, like a ACL brace, just bigger. If there’s like a little dynamic component on the bottom, it looked like a little robot.
Josh Nichols
You
Josh Nichols
Yes, I’m looking at images of it right now. This is crazy you played in this thing.
Rye Stinson
hobbling around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, yeah, we had a little bit of stretch there. So for me, was a really, it felt like one of those things that I’d always wanted to do and was on my list of things to do. And obviously, there’s more to that, but it was definitely something building over time.
It just happened to be in that moment where you kind of let go and let yourself just kind of go do your thing. yeah, but it’s very, very challenging. Like the number of golfers that are just shoot really low scores and really gets, it’s crazy how many people are really good at golf and a one day thing you’ve got to go out there and throw out some numbers. Like, you know, I played it, I hit it well enough to shoot like a really, really low number and you’re still like, yeah, and then a playoff and.
Josh Nichols
Yes, I would never expect you to win that round. I’m thinking, oh, you maybe won this qualifier, but that was a low scoring.
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah.
Rye Stinson
I’m probably, yeah, 68. Again, I don’t even know if I’m trying to think of the number of shots that I even like mistruck that day. And it’s probably less than a handful. Not even, probably. It was just, yeah, like, well, you know how the ball comes off in your sight line, like the one green I missed, I hit it exactly where I wanted with a draw just to have a little bit less club and then ended up like five yards short. But that was it.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s like a top five round of all time for you. Maybe.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Mm. Wow.
Rye Stinson
So like, otherwise it was a very clean round of golf. So I felt like if I played my game in a playoff, I would have a pretty good chance. I was in a playoff with some far more impressive golfers than myself. like, it was cool. Really cool experience. And obviously I think all of us in this space would love to play in as many of those as possible. And you’ve been very successful on that, right?
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah.
Rye Stinson
it’s, there’s a, when you really think about it too, like in a, a mid-am or a career, like the number of rounds, single rounds and opportunities, like there’s only a couple hundred people playing that every year over, maybe you’re doing this for 10, 15 year Spanish. it’s not a lot of opportunities, right? Like, and there’s a ton of people that are just like way better than way better than me that are, may not play in a mid-am.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
they might win a whatever and you know like yeah so I you know
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, when you say it like that, it’s, you know, across a 15 year or 20 year, like there’s, you know, it, let’s say it’s 20 years, you’re only, you only get to play 20 rounds of golf in 20 years that could make, you know, if you play 10 of those awesome and you play in 10 us mid-ams, you’re in the upper, upper echelon of mid-am golfers, as far as consistency goes.
Rye Stinson
20 rounds of golf.
Thank
Josh Nichols
That’s just ten good rounds of golf across 20 years. So that’s That is it’s crazy when you say like that. It seems unattainable and daunting but you Do you And I know I’m keeping this very personal to you but it again this is it’s fascinating to me because I know I said expert but like you’re really you’re really successful professionally and and a good golfer at the same time, which I think is
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Nichols
aspirational for everyone listening, but do you, I’m assuming you tried to qualify last year and also gonna try this year?
Rye Stinson
Yeah, last year was a little different. I’ll share a couple of things too. The PCL terror came with putting on some skates that my mom had got me before she passed and I went out to play some hockey and so on and so forth. So we’ve had a bit of a stretch here with my mom’s passing. My wife and I experienced three really challenging pregnancy losses. And I share that, you know, because it’s an important thing for people to talk about and such.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
Also receiving some really unfortunate news as far from a diagnosis standpoint from my dad last year. So a lot of things and layers here. So for me to be out and golfing and doing, know, that’s a massive win, right? So I would say with that,
Josh Nichols
goodness.
Rye Stinson
from a headspace of and a readiness standpoint for going back last year and expectations or whatever. I remember this, I actually stopped after nine holes. We got other things to fry here. That being said, I don’t love that, but.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
I had also called two penalties on myself, one for a ball moving and then I’d already played the wrong ball. And at that point, like, I’m like, gosh, I don’t want to hold up my competitors here. This is, you know, we’re, we’re miles out of this, but I did come back and play in the middle Atlantic Amateur, which was really fun. Yeah. It was at congressional, which was awesome. That was, that was a kind of a funny, like last minute ad to the person running the tournament.
Josh Nichols
Sure.
Josh Nichols
That’s a good one.
Rye Stinson
didn’t realize that I was exempt to qualified. So I thought I’d signed up and he didn’t have me on there. And he’s like, my gosh, I’m so sorry. And he fit me in last minute. So I was like, one of those like, we’re gonna see patient. No, no, we’re off today. We’re gonna go play congressional. Sounds cool. So, but yeah, I’m very grateful to get to play in these things. And I, yeah, I think everybody’s got a lot.
Josh Nichols
wow.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Wow.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
everybody’s got stuff, right? So like if you’re out there playing, you’re thinking, what the heck is going on? Everybody’s got some stuff. So if you can be out there and enjoying being on the golf course, playing, competing, and being in that phase versus, I wonder if I live up to while I qualified for this and I should do that and blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s no good. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
You
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, man, that’s, that’s awesome. That pers the perspective thing. man, I, I appreciate you sharing that cause that, does give a whole, a whole nother layer on, you and, and your golf pursuit. but I, yeah, that that’s it. It’s, it’s so hard to be self-driven enough and organized enough and systematic enough to, to become good enough to
Rye Stinson
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
qualify for something like that on one round across an entire year and then also have all these things that you’re juggling. So it can almost be valuable to have all these things around you that put golf in its place. It makes you realize, okay, golf is not that big of a deal and it actually can take pressure off.
Rye Stinson
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
And can pull focus away, like much needed focus, but it can also put it in its place and you can say, okay, this round could go terrible and there are just more important things in life.
Rye Stinson
Mm-hmm.
Rye Stinson
If you want to see some people going through some stuff and just come hang out with me for a day. part of my, again, I do see plenty of athletes and plenty of golfers and all that sort of side, but a lot of folks going through some incredibly complex procedures and have some really serious health stuff going on. There’s certainly going to be a little bit more.
intent and thought with managing a post-operative tendon repair, nerve transfer, so on and so forth, then there is going to be over a, you know, well, do I hit an eight iron or a nine iron here? You know, like, is this, yeah, okay. right, you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But as golfers, I, like, I happen, I’m kind of a little bit weird, because I was a golfer who happened to play hockey and lacrosse and ski, or I’m probably better at skiing than all these things, but.
Josh Nichols
Yes, over serious, yeah.
Rye Stinson
Like, you’re going to lose a $5 ball, but whatever you build that up to in your own mind can be crushing, can be devastating, right? It can be seemingly insurmountable, but it’s not like somebody is literally going to knock you unconscious here, right? I think I heard one of the last talks here of… Was it done again? Who’d you have?
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yep, Jon Donn again.
Rye Stinson
Yeah, speaking about that, like sometimes it, and I, you know, I have wondered that sometimes like, you know, there are some golfers you feel like, you know, be great, like, it just get tackled, you know, just like laid out, like, I don’t know if you’ve really felt that before, like you’ve been really like hit in hockey, lacrosse and football or something like, yeah, it’s gonna be all right, it’ll be okay.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Yes, yes, you realize what it could, you know, you realize what other sports could are, right, that what they are, and then you realize golf is just not that scary, right? There’s nothing to fear here.
Rye Stinson
for… Yeah.
Well, it is, but at the same time, here we are, we all feel that. And that’s one of the things that I absolutely relate to with folks, whether it’s patients or clients that I work with is, if I think it’s an important thing to kind of get it to know that, well, you know, that means a lot, like, I can feel I’d rather get hit, somebody just come hit me, check me now, rather than feel the way that I’m feeling after hitting this shot, after I’ve worked on it so much, and I wanted it to do this and da da da da da da, and it did that.
Josh Nichols
Great.
Josh Nichols
Sure. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
Right? Like, I feel like it’s a valuable thing to understand that as a provider or somebody in this performance space or so on and so forth. That to me is more relatable than like, my golf pro has got to be better than me for me to learn from them or vice versa or blah, blah, blah, No, no, no, no, no. So like, I think that’s what makes some of that relatable from a competitive standpoint.
versus, hey, I’m going out. And that’s the cool thing about this sport is like, that’s why like when I work with folks, I have them fill out what I call a golfer occupational profile. I want to just understand you as a golfer. that’s what I’m doing in general. I’m a really hyper specialized provider. So I want to have a look at how you’re moving and all kinds of things before we just get to the wrist or the finger or the elbow or the shoulder or whatever, right? Same sort of stuff when it comes when it comes to golf, like how do you where do you exist in this space? There’s a huge spectrum of that. And that’s kind of a cool thing like you.
Josh Nichols
Okay.
Rye Stinson
You can’t really like casually play lacrosse. Like even pick up lacrosse sucks because you’re just going to get hit and banged around. Like it’s not really like, you know, I’m sure somebody hearing this would be like, love pick up lacrosse. Well, that’s great. But I didn’t want to play in college because I’m tired of getting hit all the time. It’s not super fun. You know, like that’s what I noticed in hockey. Like as the levels go up, I get to play on a couple of really great
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yes, it seems really painful. That ball is so hard. I don’t know how you do it.
Rye Stinson
like really high level high school hockey teams. Most of my teammates played in the ECAC and Vision One, whatever. And like, as the levels went up, like how you would respond to taking a puck like right off the ankle. No padding, that really hard spot, just full slap shot right off the ankle. like, most of us are not gonna play in college or don’t want to, or not gonna grind it out as like a 24 year old freshman or whatever it is. And they’re like, okay, I’m hit, I’m kinda down.
Josh Nichols
god.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, sure.
Rye Stinson
All right, is there a whistle? Is there a whistle here? And then there’s the like, okay, I’m hobbling off, I’m making it off, that’s cool. And then there’s the like, okay, I’m staying on the ice. And then there’s, I’m immediately back in the play. That’s the level of physical commitment that’s required. And for me, I look at some of these things, like when I got to the point, skiing wise, my dad used to teach freestyle skiing. So we got to like, where we’re at, like.
Josh Nichols
Hahaha
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
flips and spins and things. like, I don’t know about this. It seems like, it seems like if you don’t land this, you don’t get to play golf in the spring. This looks a little like too much. So moguls, trees, speed, that’s all cool. But the flips and things like that’s, you know, kind of leak. Yeah, that’s, I don’t know. Yeah, once mama’s taken the aisle is the ball, you know, like it’s gone. I don’t know. It’s terrible. I got to worry about how somebody, somebody
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yeah. One small mistake and you’re done.
Josh Nichols
right yeah golf yeah yeah
Rye Stinson
might think about me or what they might say to me after and how they might feel thereafter, which can be very hurtful and uncomfortable. And I absolutely have those feelings and they’re not fun. I’m not immune to them and they can be paralyzing and ugh. But like, yeah, mean, would you rather fall off a half pipe or like hit one OB? Like I’d hit like five OB, I’d hit all OB. know, like.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Not physically paralyzing.
Right.
Josh Nichols
Yes, I’d rather shoot a hundred than fall off a half-foot. Yeah. Goodness. Okay. Okay. So, so you, um, you’re hyper-specialized in, I, uh, based on what I read and it’s, it’s language that I’m, uh, that is foreign to me, but, uh, and correct me if I’m wrong. You’re hyper-specialized in kind of
Rye Stinson
No problem, no problem.
Rye Stinson
Mm-hmm.
Josh Nichols
shoulder to hand and and also golf. Like you said you do things outside of golf but like what
Rye Stinson
Sorry. Yep.
Josh Nichols
What do golfers need to be doing to not be in a situation where they have to come see you for something like that? What do we need to be doing on a regular basis physically to prevent those kind of things?
Rye Stinson
Mm-hmm.
Rye Stinson
Mmm.
Rye Stinson
would say collectively doing your very best to mentally and physically stay somewhere in the middle of the horseshoe and continue to raise your adaptive capacity over time and be very comfortable making modifications. I get asked all the time about this sort of like, what exercises or what’s this kind of thing, right? It’s really a multitude of things, but if we simplify it, it’s like, hey, how can I keep whatever my superpowers are and level up other things?
Right, so when somebody comes to see me, like yesterday, a young, talented football player came to see me. And the unfortunate reality is that he needs to be in a particular brace. It’s really bulky and it is for these tissues to heal and for him to have his wrist to where he needs it to play really good college football. He’s just gonna need it, right? But in the meantime, I will frame that in terms of, look, this is exciting because now we can level up some other things. What else we got going on here?
I don’t like if if in life there’s so many things that are going to kick you down, knock you around all that sort of stuff. But what you learn from those things and how to get back up and all those quote unquote cliches, that’s kind of the magic, so to speak. And and it’s amazing. I’m a big well maybe kind of guy. Right. Like you’ve heard the like Tom Brady talk about the Chinese farmer brothers, you know, well maybe that story. You familiar with that?
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Josh Nichols
I don’t know, tell me actually. I don’t know that that one’s not familiar. You would be familiar with that being up where you are, but… Sure.
Rye Stinson
Okay, yeah, well, in a rehab sense, and it kind of goes like, I don’t know why this has to be in China or wherever, but let’s say that there’s a farmer, and he has a horse, and all of a sudden his horse runs away. His neighbor comes over and goes, oh my gosh, your horse is gone, how are going to plow your fields? This is terrible, isn’t this the worst? And farmer says, well, maybe.
And he goes, so the next day a wild horse arrives. Now he has a new horse. The neighbor comes over and he’s like, oh my God, I bet you’re so happy this horse is here. This is incredible. And he goes, well, maybe. And then the next day his son is out on the horse trying to tame it to plow the fields and so on and so forth. And he gets thrown from the horse and he breaks his arm and the neighbor comes back again. And the neighbor says, oh my gosh, I bet you wish that horse never came on your property. And the farmer says, well, maybe. And the next day.
The army comes to pick up young men that are healthy under a certain age to head off to war. And they leave his son behind because he has a broken arm and so on and so on and so on. The idea is that there’s such an infinite number of events here occurring. We don’t know really which ones end up being good or bad or otherwise. So, so like when you’re looking for a particular exercise or so on and so forth, it’s like, okay, well, what do I need right now? And where does this lead me to? Right? Not like, okay.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Rye Stinson
Yep, I got the exercise of exercise. This is the one all golfers, we know that golf is a rotary sport. You have to rotate a number of different joints. Some things are mobile, some things are stable. We need all, there are all those elements. And I could sit here and kind of pontificate that. think people have done that a thousand times over and that’s great. And it’s really, really important. But you also have to understand that we need to actually be able to adapt and sort of move in flux with that as life happens, as routines evolve and change, right?
Those are the folks that I see from a rehab standpoint, they’re incredible. They’re absolutely the most successful folks. people actually sometimes patients will ask me like, how do you kind of, who does the best? was like, hey, the people really do the best. They’re not just the people who figure out that there’s like this middle space, this sweet spot for me to be at my best mentally and physically otherwise, but they’re the ones who are able to notice, hey, I’m moving out one way or the other.
and I need to use my resources to bring myself back there. That right there is a magical thing. If those resources are with this provider, that provider, what have you, that, think, create, they’re probably gonna evolve a little bit over time. And even within themselves, they’ll evolve together, right? So there’s so many moving parts, there’s all this stuff. There’s a lot of well maybe moments. So that being said, what do I need right now? Okay, great. I absolutely love helping people sort that out.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
But I’m not gonna be like, look, you gotta do this one, the rest of your life, this is it, this is the only way to do it. There may be an element to like, look, I have to do something to conservatively manage my shoulder or let’s say rotator cuff or whatnot. I know that I need to keep strength in this and so on and so forth, but I really need to learn and understand a routine that I own and it no longer feels like work to me. It feels like, ooh, I get to do this versus I’ve got to do this.
Josh Nichols
you
Yes.
Rye Stinson
have an opportunity in front of me or I get to actually improve the way that I’m thinking, feeling and moving. my god, this is exciting. Right? So that’s just sort of how I like to go about it. Because I, you know, this is hard, you know.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, that’s, yeah, because an injury can, you know, us as golfers, or maybe I shouldn’t project this on other people, but it can feel like a life sentence, right? Like I am now cursed to this, right? But the well maybe is like, okay, that seems like a, you know, I bet you wish this never happened. Well.
Rye Stinson
That’s everybody. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Maybe it’s an opportunity to, like you said, level up other things instead of hyper-focus on just this one. Do you primarily see the well-maybe as, and we can keep this concrete and not as hypothetical, like myself, I went to a PT or I went to a doctor going on a month ago about…
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah,
Josh Nichols
what my personal trainer said is probably tennis elbow or it’s on this side of my elbow, not on this side of my elbow. Yes, right. So…
Rye Stinson
Yeah. So the lateral side of your elbow is painful. Yep. Okay.
We love labels in housekeeping. gotta have a label. If we don’t have a label, we freak out, right? We gotta have a name, gotta have a name, okay? Otherwise, not known, not a known quantity. Okay, this I know. I can Google it, can search it, can research it. Okay, perfect. Yep, okay, okay.
Josh Nichols
Yes, right, yeah. It has to be very narrow, right. Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah, is, but the well maybe of that is because this guy, and I’m not gonna name his name, but I’ve been to him multiple times, and he basically tries to get me out as quick as possible and throws just a prescription at me.
And he gave me a piece of paper of like, these exercises and you’ll be fine. And he says, I see 15 people with this thing a day.
Rye Stinson
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
Is he an orthopedic surgeon? Okay, so I want to pull back the curtain there a little bit. So clinic days, so if you’re a, let’s say you’re a golfer, what do you love to do? You love to golf, right? You wouldn’t be like, well, actually, I want to put my bag in the cart. I want to, you know, mess around with that. want to get, I don’t want to like.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Okay, please.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Rye Stinson
I’m going to golf. Like I don’t really care too much about getting dressed for golf. I know I need to get all this stuff here. Okay, that’s fine. But like this isn’t me playing like I want to play. Surgeons, surgeons love to operate. It’s their favorite part. There are a sort of few, there are few and far between but there are some that really enjoy a great clinic day. Those are the folks I’m very blessed to be around quite regularly, that they’re going to spend the extra time and they have a wonderful emotional intelligence to go along with incredible hand skills and so on and so forth.
Josh Nichols
Yes, the actual swing.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
But the reality is, is you’re going to see somebody who loves to do surgery. They have 15 minutes. This is a nothing burger of a day for them. Tennis elbow is get out the door. This is going to, we have data to say like, look, this is going to resolve in about a week. This is not an urgent thing. I’m not operating on this. Nobody’s going to pay me for this. Nobody’s going to whatever for this. Not even just from a financial standpoint, but just from like, okay, cool. Okay, we gotta go, right? Now that’s just some of the reality. There’s no really successful orthopedic surgeon that’s like, you know what?
Josh Nichols
Sure.
Rye Stinson
fill my day with lateral elbow pain, atraumatic, everything looks relatively good. This is just not the case. So right, they absolutely want to shove you out the door, right? So it’s not, well, it’s also not that surprising, right? So you’re in a sweet spot of time of life and a number of different things where risk of tendinopathy and such is there. There’s a few different things. This is where…
Josh Nichols
It’s not exciting to them. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
We like that, I do this kind of cool experience where I actually see patients together with one of our hand surgeons. We’ve done this with a couple different hand surgeons, work very, very closely with, we share a desk. So imagine that experience was you saw me and your surgeon at the same time, surgeon’s like, wait a I’m not gonna be able to help them that much. The efficacy for an injection for this particular diagnosis is not that great, there’s more stuff, this is on you. And then that same visit, we start to fill in this stuff.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
You’ve got all this knowledge, all these things, we have a plan, we’ve got a whole thing, we’re not just gonna punch you off and have you feel lousy about it, because it does matter, right? Because it does influence the way that you move, you interact with life, the relationships, all sorts of different things, it really does matter, right? And yeah, so like, yeah, it’s a hard thing to scale that way, right? And our healthcare system has some pros and certainly some cons, but.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
I wouldn’t be what I would say to you to take down some of the discouragement from that meeting is like, okay, that’s not not super surprised. Now, in fact, if I were you, I would be a bit more concerned if whoa, all of a sudden, the whole clinic day pause and now like all the attentions on me and my arm here. This is we’re in some serious kind of stuff here. We got some things right. Right, right. But that really doesn’t help so much as far as anxiety and and related needs and wants to like look.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes. Something bad is going on with my arm. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
want to feel like someone heard me, someone’s listening to me, I have a plan around this, like that kind of stuff. I love filling in those gaps. So there are a lot of clinicians that are like, my God, I got to see another tennis elbow, Jesus, this is not going to get me in a publication, just a whiny golfer at the club, he’s still going to keep playing like what in the F is this? This is like I’ve got, and so another thing with some diagnoses, this is a, there’s a,
There’s a handshake test relative to this. Like, it’s actually reasonable to say I always reach for a handshake and let’s, for this diagnosis in particular, really lets me know like where people are at as far as irritability levels and their own self-efficacy. But one of the things that’s talked about in like journal clubs, surgeons and therapists is that, you know, I can see somebody who was born without an arm and they’ll fill out this form like they’ve got no functional deficits, nothing. And I see this one guy who’s had tennis elbow for two weeks.
and he’s filling it out like his whole life is about to end. And you can imagine the surgeon, his day is full of people, we’ve got some serious life altering things over and over. And you come in there and you’re like, you know, this is, I’m only playing, I’m playing two times a week, it’s really cutting into the thing. And they’re like, get out of here. Yep, no, I’ve seen this a thousand times. So one of the hand surgeons I work very closely with, Dr. Nanos, he’s actually a golfer himself, single digit handicap.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Entitled.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
And just, yeah, very talented individuals, accomplished a bunch of stuff. And, you know, the way he handles some of these situations, he’s experienced it himself, right? Can imagine being a hand surgeon and you’ve got some lateral lobe pain going on for like almost a year? It’s really scary. And some of these things can build and compile. So being able to have like a relatable kind of experience, like, no, yeah, okay, okay.
can we, what can we do to add some safeties in me versus some dangers in me? And that does not mean we’re gonna say, look, oh, you’re just imagining this pain. You don’t have a tenop, tenop is hurt. Like it’s absolutely hurts. know, this is not a nothing burger. It can sometimes be perceived that way, right? Just from all of them. I’m pulling back the curtain here on like all, you know, what’s going on here. I personally don’t view anything like that.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
If it’s impacting your day, your activities, how you’re moving, all these things, of course it’s meaningful, right? Just like the extent to which we go to to have people return to stuff they love. That’s why we have all these cool things in our clinic, right? Sports simulator, all this stuff. It doesn’t matter what it is to me. Ping pong could be, you name it, we’re gonna see if we can have you participate in a meaningful way with it. That make some sense?
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Josh Nichols
Wow. Yeah. my gosh. Yeah. You’re, mean, you’re talking about empathy and, and empathy not being a super financially lucrative thing for a clinic to do, right? It’s, in a short term, right? If in a very narrow minded way, empathy is not something you can charge a bunch of money for, or it requires more attention and more, right. More time, more staff and
Rye Stinson
Time, yeah. One of the reasons I’m at where I’m at is we have more time with our patients. It results in a very long wait list, but I’m not seeing people every 15, 30 minutes. I have at least 45 minutes with every person, one to one. We don’t have AIDS. don’t have like, there’s no like, nah. Well, we do have wonderful rehab techs that do a lot of cleaning, but we don’t have them treating patients. So like, it’s a…
Josh Nichols
Mm.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes, right. You don’t shove people off to… Right.
Rye Stinson
There’s not lot of, no punting. We’re down here, first and 10, fourth and 10 with you, that’s the deal.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes. Yeah. And you’re what, what is, what’s most important here is everyone is in their own bubble of relative pain and relative function loss. Right? So if I, know, for me, it’s like painful every time I pick up a water bottle, like from the top like this, right? So
Rye Stinson
Right, so now to you, what does that mean to you? Is that scary? You’re like, I can’t even pick up a water bottle. How am I gonna be able to pick up my child or all these other things? Is that scary? But what if I pulled back the curtain and said, well, the test that we would do to try and aggravate or irritate or test the integrity and irritation of that specific structure involved actually looks a lot like that. But I could have you pick up something almost like a trap bar, completely pain-free and I’m fine.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yes. Scary. Right. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
But if you don’t have the knowledge and the education that comes with that, that can be on repeat as really scary, I’m not getting better. When it comes to tendinopathies and a lot of different injuries, we talk about changes in frequency, duration, and intensity of symptoms. Something that shows up with, let’s say, lateral elbow tendinopathy and such is, I felt great for so long and then it was back. Like I caught a cold, like, my God, I got it again. It’s back with a vengeance. I didn’t get rid of it. It’s not gone.
But then as we process that with someone, we wait a minute, are you telling me that this only hurt once in the past week versus every single day? And when it did happen, it went away quite quickly? And then after it went away quite quickly, the intensity wasn’t like a 10 out of 10, it was like a five? my God, we’re doing great. That’s really significant. But you would have no idea. You would just be like, God, it’s back again. Here, it’s back, I’ve got it. I’ve caught the tendinopathy, I’ve caught this, so on and so forth.
Josh Nichols
That’s improvement.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. It’s back. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
But in reality, this is how we’re monitoring these things over time. And it’s a long stretch of time. So people undersell lateral elbow tendinopathy. There’s all sorts of names, ITIS, ALGA. It’s sort of a little sidebar here. The names for this started out as lateral epicondylitis. We went with ITIS, but there’s really not a lot of inflammation. It even shows up on our MRI a lot of the times.
So we went with OSIS, I love that one. OSIS doesn’t even mean degenerative changes. It’s totally, it’s like taking a suffix and just throwing it on there, because maybe it’s a micro tear. Okay. And then we went with ALGIA, because it hurts, maybe we don’t even have these massive changes, so on and so forth, right? And then we finally, I’ve had to change so many slides just to match like clinical practice guidelines where I just got lateral level tendinopathy. This is what it is, right? No, these eponyms, things, whatever. You know, we’ve got to do the…
Josh Nichols
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Rye Stinson
the mills test, the codes and stuff. Look, if we want to stretch this or irritate the structure, we’re probably going to stretch it out and ask for a resistive load or force. It’s a way to add load to attendance. Just as when you grab this at end ranges, far away from your body with a long lever arm, it doesn’t really matter that that’s just a water bottle. It’s kind of like doing one of those tests. So it’s not surprising. But if you know that that’s not surprising, is it quite as scary? Maybe not so much. So if you are, if you, some patient tells me that, I’m like, okay, so.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes.
Right now. Right. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
the position that would be like, yeah, that makes sense. And a lot of times we go from like here to, that’s, oh, okay, cool, I get it. But you’re not gonna get that in 10 minutes of whatever, and then you’re gonna wonder, do I need an injection? The number of people that I’ve seen who have, it’s kind of a, sometimes it’s almost a comical progression of like, what do you think? Do I need an x-ray? Like there’s so much more that goes to a clinical exam. Like the number of things that we’re seeing.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Right, we can handle this, right? This is a-
Right.
Rye Stinson
I like to pull those back, especially when folks are experiencing some anxiety so that, I’m not just sort of shipping out the door. Like, look, I’m looking for tenderness, palpation, changes in range, assessing all these different things from a joint and tissue perspective. We’re checking a lot of boxes here that don’t really constitute a need for further advanced imaging. But a lot of times people sort of built this up, whether they’re going off of a friend’s experience or so on so forth. My body had this and it was that and I don’t want to this. You get an image like.
Oh yeah, it was actually, that’s what you said? Okay, but what do you think about an MRI? What about an MRI? Well, I don’t know if there’s, when we look at like an assessment, there’s like clinical imaging is about 30 % and then 30 % is the mechanism and then 30 % is the actual clinical exam and then there’s this other like remaining percentage-ish that’s sort of the X factory kind of thing. But it’s not like everybody who has this, well, we must have an MRI. Oh, we found some stuff.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
Right, Carly was talking a lot about this stuff where we see, we don’t always necessarily see pain correlate with damage. mean, imagine this, imagine you’re same day clinic, hand surgeon and myself, patient comes in to see you, and you have no idea any terminology or whatever, you look at this thumb, you’re like, my God, that’s gotta be arthritis, right, that thing is sticking out where it shouldn’t, and you have x-rays on both hands and this thumb looks like, my God, even I can see this, this looks terrible. And they’re like, no, no, no, doc, this side’s fine, this one bothers me.
Josh Nichols
That’s right.
Rye Stinson
and there’s maybe mild changes and you’re like, what the hell is going on here? This doesn’t add up. So sometimes that’s the case, right? I’m not saying, my gosh, you come in, you’re fractured. Like this is obvious, you got some trauma, some things, but it’s just not quite that simple, if that makes sense, right?
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, Yes.
Yeah, yeah, the tendency to quick diagnosis, quick fix, get you out, that seems like standard, I mean, I don’t know if it is standard practice. It sounds like you guys are kind of bleeding edge, tip of the spear, this is how it should be done. Yeah, I’m sure.
Rye Stinson
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
there’s plenty of really wonderful people doing exactly the same thing. I’m never going to say though, I’m just leading the way on it. No way. That’s not, no. What I would say though is a question that I like to ask myself and I’ve certainly, this terminology definitely comes from TPI learnings and such and Greg and that sort of stuff, as well as other really wonderful providers saying very similar things.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, sure, sure.
Rye Stinson
But one of the things that I would ask and wonder about you, say, wait a minute, is this elbow a problem or is this elbow a superpower? Right? So I’ll go back to the example from yesterday. I’m gonna try to leave some details out so I don’t wanna give this example, but a young man again had big, big, pop, painful wrist injury on the right side, picking up a very, very heavy load, like 300 pounds or so. This is a big kind of elite sport, kind of whatever, right?
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Rye Stinson
And the first instinct is go, trauma, this must be it. Let’s just focus on this. Obviously he did this, that’s the problem. I’ve worked with a lot of power lifters, not like, I don’t wanna say a lot, but enough, like world strong man to people competing in the art world, kind of thing. When you’re picking up something bilaterally, well, this failed, I still wanna know, like, well, what’s the deal here? Is this the main problem? But then we look at the other side and we see the grip strength is like literally half on the other side. So was this the issue or is this working over time? I don’t know.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
But I don’t know, I sure as heck don’t know, unless I actually take a look. I pay attention to how you’re moving overall. And again, I think some of the best providers that are really, really specialized think globally and then narrow versus I’m just gonna stay narrow. And then some of the best general providers, like some of the most impressive PCPs, they get a tough knock on so many things. Like, why didn’t you do this? Why didn’t you do that?
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
they’re responsible for so many things, but then some of them also have the capacity to have such specialized knowledge for very unique things, right? And that’s really incredible. But again, starting wide and then narrowing, vice versa. Like having those capacities are really critical. So that we’re kind of paying attention to you as a person. Like you’re a person with lateral elbow pain. I’m not gonna look at you as like, here’s Josh, yeah, another frigging golfer with tennis elbow. What did I do to deserve this?
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Rye Stinson
Right? yeah, and I don’t love how we talk about that. I don’t love how we, you know, there was a joke about it, whatever. Like, I think a thing that’s, yeah, you know, if you’ve experienced a pain or discomfort with a sport or an activity or something that you love to do, yeah. I what’s the first thing we would do as healthcare? We would ask, like, well, what did my friend do with this? What would we do? We can sit here and be very judgy about, like, oh, here’s the person, they’re like.
My cousin’s sister had this done and they said it went really badly, right? Like, okay, well that’s great. But as clinicians, like, oh, I hate when people do that. I’m sorry, most of my clinical caseload are either physicians, surgeons, nurses, and mostly treat other healthcare providers. Like, that’s a huge chunk. We’re no different. We wanna surround ourselves with knowledge, resource. Like, if something goes on, there’s a long list of people you’re gonna call, like, look, I need an image of this and that.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Yeah, you’re humans too.
Rye Stinson
really know there’s a lot of similar behaviors, but being able to note those, recognize those things, and then say, well, wait a minute, how do we do the best we can with what we have, the place we are, and the time we’re given? Let’s kick some butt. That’s basically what we try to do.
Josh Nichols
you
Josh Nichols
Yeah, I love the kind of the global then into narrow because you know, it is it’s really easy to say, okay, you’re you have pain here. This is the issue. Everything you’re doing with this arm. It’s something you’re doing right here. And well, what if it’s, you know, you know, let’s say it’s overuse from keyboard mouse situation. Well, maybe maybe it’s it’s the way you’re
Rye Stinson
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
sitting, right, or it’s the way, it’s your overall posture, maybe it’s, okay, you’re hitting off a mat, maybe, would you, okay, yeah, right, there’s the, right, okay.
Rye Stinson
There’s a lot of things, there’s a lot of things. That’s the idea is sort of we’re thinking about that, but there’s two ways to go about that. So there’s an anxiety inducing version goes, know, maybe we’re, I don’t wanna do that, maybe we’re missing this. should, have you not checked that? You haven’t checked that, wow. I can sound really amazing and important and like, well, echelons above my other peers, like, you didn’t check, I looked over here. I mean, you didn’t, you’re, well, who are you seeing? I mean, what that is.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Yep, yep.
Rye Stinson
What that is, is another danger in you. Now you’re thinking, shoot, I haven’t even gotten great care, I’ve been missing, what else am I missing? my God, we’ve just taken you and leveled you up another thing. Why? For my benefit? No, forget that. No, I’m not here for that. And then the other side of that too is, again, safety’s in me, danger’s in me. Well, imagine if a surgeon or someone says, yeah, you know that tendon, saw it on, that thing was pancake down there.
That image, that saying that is gonna stick with you for years. Like I see, we see a lot of folks at Hopkins just because it’s big center, just like Mayo and other places for like a third opinion, fourth opinion, like this is my last gym, like as if we’re that special. But like a lot of this stuff is also unpacking some of these layers of dangers in me and safeties in me and sort of figuring out, how do we get here, right? Like it’s just a lot of things, right? So.
Josh Nichols
Right.
Rye Stinson
One of the things that I love to protect against quite a bit, and I think this is very important, this is where, again, if you’re new to the golfing space, maybe you’re passionate about golf and you’re like, hey, I’m PT, I like golf, I wanna do that, I’ve done my certification, that’s great. Yeah, no, you know, you’re probably, if you’re probably coming in at too much, we need to change that, we need to, whoa, whoa, dude, how do you know, man? What in the world, what are we talking about? This is where I really like to come in, because I,
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Right?
Rye Stinson
I, from a, let’s say, speak the language standpoint, I’m very fluent, obviously, medical world, very, very fluent golf instruction world, and also very fluent from a training standpoint. I’ve learned a lot and been around some really incredible people in all of those spaces to where I have the trust of some top rated instructors to look and say, hey, how’s this person moving? What do you see, that kind of thing.
So for me, I’m gonna spend some time looking at and problem solving that together with resource around that person. Who are you working with? What are you envisioning right now as far as what’s going on? All these things are must knows. That’s why I have them on my little occupational golfer profile kind of deal. Like I’m not gonna, that to me is just why are we introducing another potential danger in me? Completely unnecessarily. Let alone with a golfer who’s already not feeling great about themselves. This is hurting, maybe I’m not playing great.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
boy, let’s just pile this on, right? Unnecessary, unnecessary.
Josh Nichols
Yes, yeah, yeah, immediately, immediately jump into all these things you have to change right away. Cause I, you know, left to my own devices, I’m thinking, okay, if, it hurts every time I hit off a mat, then that must mean I’m getting too steep. I need to shallow out my swing and that’s definitely the solution. So I’m just going to like completely alter my golf game to just to address this one little thing. And it could be something totally different.
Rye Stinson
Yeah.
Yeah, especially, are kind of tricky, right? One of the things, I’ll just throw this out there because obviously we have mats in space. We don’t have indoor grass. We’re not that great. But it’s very easy to be hitting before a golf ball on a mat and being rewarded very reasonably, Like tape drill kind of stuff, little things like that, reestablishing a low point, figuring that where am I, all that stuff. There’s a lot of, my perception is this.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes.
Rye Stinson
Here’s the reality. And one of the things that’s done really well at TPI is saying, well, look, I’m going to collect all this stuff. And one of the things that I’ve observed over time, it’s gotten better and better. And I think that comes with time and comes from a clinical approach as well. Less of these, aha, I’ve got it. Or maybe, yeah, yes, that’s it. You’re this, you’re that. Great, like I’m very quick. No, shoot, I’ve been surprised. my gosh. Once you’re surprised enough times and once you say, okay, great, we sort of approach and we spend.
more more time listening versus telling with certainty and so on and so forth. Right? It’s hard. Hard to do. Hard to do, but it’s also like, again, keep your well-maybe in here. Well, maybe. Yeah, there’s a lot of moving parts happening here. Right? Could this be vision? Could this be that? But if I’m also going to be pretty cautious not to sell like, I’ll show the other end of the spectrum here.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yes, empathy. Back to empathy.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes.
Rye Stinson
I can think of a good friend and a very good mid-amateur golfer who was having some issues with some of this stuff and got to the point where he was like, man, if I don’t have force plates, there’s no way that I can possibly learn. Like, I need to have, like, we can go too far down that line. Well, I’m not gonna get better unless I have all of these things put together. There’s some marketing to that. Like, there’s lots of ways to learn movement and things. So, like, we can’t push it that far. But to look at somebody very holistically and have a good idea of what they’re doing.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
And then, hey, how can I move the needle the most with perhaps the least invasive strategy here? And then how can I most importantly surround this human, this person with knowledge, resources to then be very, very successful? And I’m not talking about, okay, I’ll punch you off here, work on this, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m not even like, I want.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
I want people to own some of this stuff. Like, hey, I know I’ve got a good understanding of this. I don’t need you to go teach a whole anatomy class, the concept of, hey, what are we doing? And why are we doing this? Okay, this tracks, like I’m on board, I get it. What kind of things do I need to look out for? And how do I learn from this? Perfect, it’s great.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yeah. I mean, that’s a good swing coach. The best swing coach is equipping the golfer to be able to self-diagnose and master their own game.
Rye Stinson
always.
That’s that and the other thing too is that as you like as you work up the ranks of folks who are sort of you know, highly rated in the center like what’s what’s so special and that kind of thing they listen they watch and they observe and they listen they watch and observe and they’re very selective with what they say when they say it how they say it same sort of thing pops up from a clinical standpoint. That’s why so much of golf is just really wonderful neuromuscular reeducation feedback systems motor learning that kind of stuff.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
and also communication skills. there are wonderful parallels between instructors and coaches and clinicians as well. And so there’s, try to connect some of those things more than separate them. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes. What could the listener, let’s say they’re not gonna go up to Johns Hopkins, you know. Let’s say, what can a listener do, or like how can they navigate either their own injury or navigate the healthcare system practically? Like what can I do if I’m not coming up there? What can I do as a…
Rye Stinson
You’re not coming to sunny Baltimore, Columbia. Yeah. Okay.
Rye Stinson
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
it from a practical standpoint.
Rye Stinson
Well, so you followed, and sometimes people are burned by this, like I followed all the steps, right? I went to orthopedist, check, therapy, whatever. There’s a lot of places, and Maryland’s an open access state, like you don’t necessarily need a referral to see an occupational therapist, physical therapist, right out of the gate. Some insurance is initial evaluation and referral, like, there’s a lot of things that like, if your elbow is hurting that way, A, traumatically, so on and so forth.
going to see and I imagine being on the show and being in the community and space you’re in, probably been around or met some really impressive clinicians, I would take advantage of that resource. to know that, a really wonderful physical therapist or a wonderful, like the difference between a great physical therapist, a great chiropractor, there shouldn’t be a huge, there’s no gap there, right? But there’s good, maybe different things, right? But like,
Let’s say you saw somebody there and that’s bass first, right? Like, okay, we see what we see and then we can also make some recommendations. So I think you went through part of the process. I think the thing that I would share is that there are pros and cons of this and there are certain things that are handled very efficiently and some things that aren’t. So I can sit here on my end and be like, wow, you know, we do all this stuff and all this thing, but like, if you want to come see me, like,
yeah, how do I get it? well, they told me three months to access timing. How important is timing? Right? That’s really, really challenging. And our system struggles with that a lot of times. And that’s just not just the Hopkins thing. That’s every healthcare system thing in a number of different countries. It’s not like somebody has just figured out healthcare perfectly and everything’s great. There’s pros and cons of everything.
Josh Nichols
Sure.
Rye Stinson
Even France, even France. So that’s a really, really great question. one of the things that I take a lot of pride in is being able to say that I don’t know when I truly don’t know, because you did a lot of good stuff. But surrounding yourself with knowledge, I think is really important so that you can come in. And I think a lot of clinicians came up on a podcast that was on,
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
You’re gonna talk about how it’s so annoying people come in, they’ve read all this stuff on the internet and they’re like, they’re telling me, I love that. If I have a patient who’s come in, and this is how I choose to see it, right? And they’ve spent all this time researching this stuff. Now I have a couple minutes for them to just be like, and this and this and this this and this this and and like, this is fantastic. So I’m hearing you’re incredibly motivated, you love to learn and you’ve sought out care to get better. Like, oh God, we’re gonna crush this. This is exciting.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes
Rye Stinson
Right? Let’s take some of these resources. I love that. Like the whole harboring of exercises and protocols, I love that AI is, my God, that’s not teaching great clinical care. Like, well, I gotta go to them, they’ve got the answers on the exercises. my God. So much of this is how to perform these with certain regularity and error detect whether or not you’re doing them effectively or not, or getting the bang for buck or juice forth the squeeze kind of scenario. But…
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Rye Stinson
When that comes along, I’m never irritated, intimidated, disappointed when folks come in having spent any kind of energy. here comes another. But again, I’m not in an ER where it’s life or death and there’s so many different scenarios going on to where you are literally killing time. That’s a different scenario. And there are so many other different scenarios. But where I am in outpatient rehab,
Josh Nichols
Annoyed. Right. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes, right.
Rye Stinson
That’s a no big deal. This is wonderful. There’s an exciting part about this where, I’m super, super motivated and I’ve done some research, so on and so forth. And you can kind of say like, well, if we could turn some of these things that might be perceived as sort these gross weaknesses, we can make them some strengths and all of a sudden we’re off and we’re rolling. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Let’s take our time and talk through this. Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. So if I could summarize for the listener, and correct me if I’m wrong, Rye, but for a listener to successfully navigate this would be take more time and find the right provider based on other people’s experience with the provider. They really listened to me. They didn’t just…
chew me up and spit me out into the system. listen to me, they empathize with me. I highly recommend them. Take your time to find that person before just going to the closest one.
Rye Stinson
I don’t know if I can agree with it. Every bit of me wants to, but access to care and timing is great. What I want you to sit around perseverating with ouch and pain and all these different things to hold off for the right, this is a well maybe scenario, right? But what I would say is I’d be open to learn and I would be going to occupational therapy or physical therapy is
Josh Nichols
Okay. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Ry…
Rye Stinson
going to see one person. People are usually very, very prone to consider second opinions having seen a surgeon or a physician. But a lot of times you’ll hear things like, well, no, I did therapy. I did all the therapy there was and it didn’t work. Didn’t work. Well, I saw, you know, gym and whatever for three visits and okay. all right. Okay. Like, did I get all that I could?
I mean, the number of situations where it’s kind of hard for me to find a scenario where we can’t be somewhat helpful in something, even for people that are going to have massive procedures or leading up to things. Can we get you, can we help in any way possible to be, so you are more prepared for whatever is coming or where you’re currently at. But again, it can get very like, well, no, this is a waste of time. didn’t answer, I don’t know.
Josh Nichols
Right.
Rye Stinson
So what I would say to the listener as the patient or future patient is have an openness to learning and building a system around you that helps you be very successful. And that can be a challenging thing when I’m hurting. Like when I’m hurting, agitated, we’re here, right? This isn’t like how every single session goes. Like people come in at different levels of irritability. We spend a lot of time organizing.
Josh Nichols
Feels urgent. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
educational talks and practice guidelines and things in terms of levels of irritability. If you came in, we’re like 10 out of 10, you’re holding your arm here, we’re not, we are not gonna have this entire experience of all this, right? We need, where are we? But it’s a process, right? So there’s a lot of, yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah. Hmm.
Josh Nichols
There’s nuance to this. There’s individuality. There’s, yeah.
Rye Stinson
There is and there just isn’t a perfect answer for me to want to say like absolutely do this all these listeners wait Don’t do that or like what like we’ve started this process like okay Did I feel like is this been the most effective thing for me so far? you know what I’ve at least confirmed that I don’t have any major Notable bony tissue damage so on so forth like Where was let me get where are you out in your process with this this has been going on for how long?
Josh Nichols
Yeah, this was, I think, first week of February I started, I think it goes all the way back into January. was starting, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no. It goes all the way back to Thanksgiving when I, I put it in my calendar, started feeling pain in my elbow. So it took me all the way till early February to actually schedule something because I’m horrible about helping myself. But whatever.
Rye Stinson
Yeah. Okay.
Josh Nichols
So it ramped up little by little by little and then he threw my loxacam at me and said goodbye and do the do this piece of paper exercises and Hopefully get better. So it’s been almost a month now and it’s only a little better, right?
Rye Stinson
I’m gonna…
Rye Stinson
Okay. So, Mille Lac scams anti-inflammatory sometimes isn’t quite as miserable on, on stomach as some other things. I, know, again, there’s still some, there’s, there’s, there’s, know, as a clinician, hear a of some of these self-defeating kind of things that come because I’m with this, cause I’m not so good. So they’re kind of Like, let’s see if we can fill that in with some, cool stuff. Right. This is something that’s actually very hard for me and, and, and playing. Cause a lot of the folks like.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah.
Rye Stinson
You can imagine being in the mid-amp and there’s a Haggisad over there and he’s got an elbow thing on him. I have to separate myself from this, but I literally would be the person to treat X, Y, or Z from here. It’s such a, you know what I mean? And it’s tricky. There’s such a commonality to that in the golf space where I gotta keep my space here. So one of the things that I…
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, I’m golfing for me right now. I’m not helping Stuart Haggiston.
Rye Stinson
Right, right, right. And you can imagine the number of people who are ask me stuff and this and so on and so forth and that kind of thing in our space. But one of the things that’s hard for me, if I admit to, just like, I’ll stop caring about my game. Like well, how’s this person doing? It’s just how I’m wired. It is, but it’s tough. Yeah, is. It’s not the best if you’re playing the weekend money game kind of thing. And so was like, oh, this is really terrible. And then they’re just gonna hit it to like two feet and they’re like, what are you?
Josh Nichols
Yep, conversation. Yep.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, that’s a good wiring.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah.
Josh Nichols
You tricked me.
Rye Stinson
What, ah, you tricked me. Yeah, yeah, you son of a, oh, this is just cruel. And I got to listen to so many of these different stories and things and so on and so forth. I don’t know, man, I see a lot of opportunity here. Some fun stuff for some maybes. I I can also see too where, you know,
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Rye Stinson
If in your mind you were expecting, I’m just gonna go in there and they’re gonna tell me to kind of rest it, maybe not play so much golf, take an anti-inflammatory, why should I go? And you’re like, well, I don’t really need to go now. Did I kind of get that right? Like maybe that’s why I’m not really gonna go. What are they really gonna do? Okay, and look, here it is. I did it. So, I did it, I did it, my dude. I’m never doing this and I’m still in the same place. Blah, blah, blah, blah. So we essentially try to interrupt this wheel.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yes, I’ve made up my mind, yes.
Yep, confirmed. So I’m never going back for sure now. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Yes.
Rye Stinson
This sort of wheel of like lack of productivity kind of stuff. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
This is so interesting because the element of like, don’t, there’s like a, there’s a cocktail of like, I don’t deserve care because I am too busy helping other people in my life. So like, who am I to like address this tiny little thing? And then there’s also the, you know,
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Nichols
Doctors are always going to be this way. why, you know, why even waste their time away? Why waste my time? It’s going to cost like an out of pocket thing because of insurance. So like, I’m just not going to go. So I’ve, I’ve developed this whole cocktail of like, I just will go months and months of this little nagging pain. Right.
Rye Stinson
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
sounds like me at the dentist. The number of healthcare providers that are just annoyed as hell by the… And it’s like, they did this and screwed it up and the thing. yeah, this experience. I’m gonna share a story. You probably, this is an excerpt from Chopwood Carry Water that I’ve shared with some really wonderful offers that I’ve worked with from a performance standpoint. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Ooh, yeah.
Josh Nichols
He’s a golfer, that author’s a golfer.
Rye Stinson
I think the story of, I want to say Japanese architect or whatnot, but essentially the story of this incredible architect who is on the verge of retirement. And he’s just like, you know, I’ve had it. That is it. I’m retiring. This is it. And goes in to see his boss and his boss is like, listen, you’ve had an incredible career. This is amazing. really, I just, I need to do one more thing. I need you to build one more house. And he’s like,
Are you, no way. Now, my God, no, I’m done. I’m retired, this was it, I was done. Like I am checked the hell out. Like I am done with this. I’m not building another house, but listen, I absolutely have to have you. You’re the only person who can do this. You’re the only person for the job. You’re the best at what you do for this specific thing. No one else can do it. I really have to have you. F it, fine, I’ll do it, fine. Okay. And all the things that would normally make you incredibly amazing at this very specific thing.
you kind of like, you know, sort of half-ass him some of them. Maybe I’m not getting the best materials or maybe I’m avoiding this or maybe I’m not doing that. And this house is just sort of like, this is not my best work, but you know what, it’s getting done. It’s done and it’s just like, ugh, fine. You know, it’s probably the worst house I’ve ever built. And the architect goes back into the office and there is his boss with the keys to what is actually his house, right?
So I think in this scenario, one of the things I would remind you as the frustration and all these sorts of things builds, like, man, you’re just always building your own house. We ran into some snags here, but you should be looking for great, the best materials, this or that, all of these things versus, wow, you know, yeah, don’t sell yourself short on account of maybe a system that isn’t as best equipped to…
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Oh wow.
Rye Stinson
perfectly handle this exact situation. Doesn’t mean that you should stop building, right?
Josh Nichols
Yes. Wow. Advocate for myself, right? I have this one body in this one life. Why would I… Man, that’s so interesting.
Rye Stinson
Cool. Why am I settling for this extended period of whatever the hell, know, great. It’s not like you don’t have resources. You got me on the show now. mean, good God. Like, you know, like where are we going here? Right. So you’re still building your house even as you’re sitting there thinking, well, I should go. I thought about this with my teeth. I’m oh my God, finally gonna do it. Okay, fine. gonna get this one. I don’t really think it’s that big of a cavity, but like, okay, all right, well, we’re gonna take, oh well, here I am. Right. And it’s…
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Huh.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
And it’s tricky, but it’s a nice little reminder, right? Yeah, yeah.
Josh Nichols
Wow. Okay. Rye Stinson, tell me about the Johns Hopkins Golf Rehabilitation and Performance Program. Tell me, I know you’ve touched on it here and there, but what’s going on up there?
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the challenges is obviously when we’re working with golfers who are experiencing pain in some respect, this is a rehabilitation sort of phase. But one of the things that’s very rewarding on my end is helping share some of these strategies. It’s really rewarding getting to pass some of the stuff that we’ve learned and we use every day onto folks in scenarios where you shouldn’t just have to get banged up to then come in here.
Like we see the baseball player that comes in and casts and they leave throwing harder than they’ve ever thrown. Like this is wonderful, but you know, it would be really cool to have some of these opportunities even beyond that. It’s also a nice little break in the day, right? We got clinical, we got a little performance, we got some stuff. It’s kind of fun, right? So it’s been a program that I’ve been trying to kind of build and develop and make enough time for on my end.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
We do like zero advertising, like none. It’s just because it’s a name. Like if you look up my name or anything, Hopkins or golf and Hopkins or occupational therapy, it just pops up. And it’s a program that I would love to develop more and more where we’re not just seeing golfers who are currently in pain. We all have histories of things and injuries and all sorts of stuff, but it’s a nice way to fast track.
Josh Nichols
Okay
Josh Nichols
Yeah, sure.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
and optimize your times. Look, this is what I got right now in a non-judgmental, non-danger and me-inducing kind of way. And of course, if we see some things that are a little whatever, look, I just so happen to have one of the best healthcare networks in the world at my disposal as far as referrals. this kind of, great, we’ve got some PTs, we’ve got some wonderful surgeons in every imaginable specialty capacity. And not just PT in one, like if there’s some vestibular stuff going on, we have that whole unit, we’ve got, if it’s speeds, whatever, we have all that stuff.
So, and these folks are always very excited to see people in these spaces. So it’s a wonderful way of leveraging the incredible quality of care in our healthcare system with, and that sort of umbrella was saying, all right, well, the stuff that I would do where, you know, the Mark Shefticks of the world would have me up at his performance center to work with, as well as Ted Sheftick, like, come and evaluate their golfers and see like, well, wait a minute.
We’re trying to do this. Is the body a factor here? And if so, how it is, what can I do to understand this? What can you translate for me so that I can help this person be their very best and just actually get to where they’re going to with as few uncertainties from a movement standpoint as possible? Let’s stop wasting time. So it’s essentially a resource that I really wish that I had at different phases of.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Yeah.
Rye Stinson
golf and life and certainly plenty of struggles with golf. Like, oh my gosh, in terms of shooting terrible, oh, I love the swings. Oh my gosh. Having access to like, you know, like, hey, a little bit banged around from hockey season or lacrosse season. Oh, this is that. Oh, that’s all that is versus feeling like, oh, I’m terrible, terrible at golf, I’m awful, blah, Let’s 86 that stuff. yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Wow.
Yeah, basically like, I’m gonna go here and surround myself with a team that I know I will never, you talked about the of the horseshoe and the adaptive capacity. I’m never gonna get too far off because I’ve got this team.
Rye Stinson
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Rye Stinson
Well, yeah, that touches on some, you know.
I’d say life can move that needle really severely in different directions. So I wouldn’t say like, well, I’ve only got to stay here, otherwise I’m doing bad. It’s more of like, I know the things where I’m doing pretty well. It really doesn’t matter if this happens to me or that happens to me. I know that I’m capable of bringing this thing on back. That would be another nice way. I think the Jim Dunnigans of the world might agree with that. Yeah. Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Josh Nichols
Okay, right. Yeah, it’s not a… Yes, you’re not… It’s not… The goal is not, I’m always in my sweet spot.
Rye Stinson
I’m not constantly trying to protect myself from ever experiencing fear or hardship. And if I just do this thing, then I’ll never be bad at golf or I’ll never be too bad or never be too embarrassed. That’s not it. That’s not it at all. That’s opposite of what I’m getting at here. What I’m getting at here is that I’m actually somebody who’s really adaptable. I’m capable of being like, yeah, I am building my house and I’m a pretty damn good architect. But you know what? Right now, I am not very good at this.
Josh Nichols
Yes, that’s fragile. That’s actually very fragile. Yes.
Rye Stinson
And I need to consult with a lumber person. And I need to know a little bit more about this roof. And honestly, this walkway, but you know what? Man, this door is awesome because the handle works and it’s always open and it’s never completely closed. That’s an important part. That’s my own little spin on that story. I don’t know, I I, you know, I’m still building my own house. It’s, it’s, it’s its own thing and so on and so forth. But I got to tell you, I make sure all the doors aren’t locked. Like I want to leave something open so that I can have a little bit of input here.
Josh Nichols
Mmm.
Rye Stinson
So I think of it in that way. But I also want to mention some stuff on a training standpoint too. I’ve had the privilege of, I can just refer some folks over to Jason Meese, who’s top 50 athletic trainer relative to golf in the world. And so many other folks in that space. I’ve learned so much from people in that space as well.
Basically, the thing that I really enjoy doing is being able to take in some information, edit out and hear there the other and sort of help people figure out, all right, well, where do we kind of rock and roll from here? And we kind of go from there. And that’s exactly what we do clinically. So having a chance to do that with golfers, I think is wonderful. And to me, it’s even exciting if you’re already working with some folks. That’s fantastic.
Let’s talk, let’s have a conversation that you’re not gonna get a call like, this is terrible. Why are you doing this? like, hey, these are some of the things we’re seeing. Just wondering what you’re thinking, where are we at? One of the things that I love to do, absolutely, I think this is, and it’s the same model that I get to experience every Wednesday clinically. So like, again, hand surgeon, hand therapist, sharing a desk, going in, your experience would be probably a little bit different, right? And I love doing that with golf proofs.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Hmm.
Rye Stinson
Now I happen to have, again, I’ve built that connection and trust with folks. It’s an important and tight community, right? Like some medical guy wants to come in here and it certainly helps. I can hit a golf ball pretty far and da, da, da, da, da. But honestly, you need to have a good understanding and appreciation for what it is they do. And with that mutual respect, seeing somebody together is awesome because it is similar to what Dave and Greg do, similar to what other folks in this space do.
Josh Nichols
Yes.
Rye Stinson
I love that. That’s awesome. Now you’ve got double the resources, all this stuff right there. Do we need 10 million of these? Are we like, look, I see this is what we gotta do. We’re off, we’re rolling. This is exciting. So that kind of experience to me I think is very valuable.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Man, you’re doubling the empathy and the listening and not the quick diagnosis. This is awesome. Ry, you’re doing incredible things. You play Humble Pie maybe more than any other guest I’ve had on here relative to your abilities and successes and whatever. know you’re gonna say, nah, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not. But it’s truly cool what you’re doing and I’ve…
Rye Stinson
Ash. Shit.
Josh Nichols
I already feel better about my own thing, though you haven’t done some official thing of looking at my arm. I just feel better you empowering me that it doesn’t have to end here. Advocate for yourself. Your body is your own house, right? Build it well and don’t give up. So I feel…
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That’s awesome, that’s awesome. I appreciate that very much. I struggle to take a compliment, but I will take it coming from someone as accomplished as you. I really do appreciate it, so thank you.
Josh Nichols
I feel so much better just by talking to you. Thank you.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, so.
Cool. Okay, where can, what should people, I know you said you could just Google Johns Hopkins golf or something, but is there an official website for the program?
Rye Stinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, official website. Give us some grace on the scheduling side of things. One of the tricky things, I actually was just on a call. The Duke Healthcare system reached out to ask, because they’re thinking about adding something similar. And they wanted to have kind of a reference, like, well, how are you guys doing this? It’s a labor of love trying to organize access and scheduling and that kind of thing.
Josh Nichols
Of course.
Josh Nichols
cool.
Josh Nichols
I’m sure.
Rye Stinson
So a little bit of grace there, there should be a, hopefully the website is updated. There should be an email of a very particular scheduler, Charlene Kemp. She’s amazing. And hopefully the phone number is, yeah. We’ve had some recent turnover on website design folks and marketing people. So like, think it’s been, you know, it’s one of those.
Josh Nichols
You’re sure.
Josh Nichols
Got it. Got it.
Rye Stinson
but I definitely don’t want people calling the main Hopkins scheduling line that is, I’ve had a couple people persistent enough to make it through. Can you imagine calling that line and be like, I want the golf guy. And like I had someone do it, he made it all the way through, incredibly persistent, a spouse got it for her husband and every incredible guy. like that’s, that line’s really not for that. But we need to be better on that on our end. That process is in the works, I promise.
Josh Nichols
Yeah.
Josh Nichols
Wow.
Josh Nichols
yeah.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yeah.
Rye Stinson
but absolutely the website there, email, my email is also gonna be on there. So feel free to shoot me a message and we can get something set up. Yeah, it’s really something I enjoy and if we can pass on some knowledge and create a valuable and useful learning experience, then we’ve done well.
Josh Nichols
Amazing. Rye, thank you so much. This was truly a pleasure and I’ve learned a lot and I feel better after this conversation. So thank you so much, Rye.
Rye Stinson
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
