Podcast Transcript
Josh Nichols
I’ve heard you say beliefs protect emotions and emotions meet needs. So what do you think a frustrated golfer needs?
Matt Young
That straight away. We would produce any type of belief, you know, I’m not good enough, I can’t do that, this is why this won’t work, to ultimately protect an emotion that we might be fearful of, i.e. judgment, i.e. worry, i.e. fear, i.e. anxiety, whatever it may be.
That then meets deeper emotional needs, which I can get into in a moment, but what a frustrated golfer essentially is in a position of is the fear of their internal way of what they think should be happening isn’t actually happening. It’s not going. That’s where the frustration comes from. The way that I am internally perceiving the way that this should happen is not my external reality.
So I don’t know him personally, I don’t want to speak for him, I can’t speak for him but we’re recording this the day after the players finished yesterday after Ludwig Oberg had a know steady front nine on the back nine all of a sudden he goes double bogey bogey or something all of a sudden then he might be getting some frustration.
Why? Because his internal way of the way this should be going is now not meeting external reality. And so what happens is, I’m not saying for him there again, but in these moments we start to project beliefs in order to protect the deeper parts of us that we’re fearful of being exposed to.
Now, as this develops, I’m sure I’ll go into that and share that with you. But that’s essentially where that framework comes from.
Josh Nichols
Yes, reality is not meeting expectations, right? I’ve said a lot, the delta between expectations and reality is, the bigger that delta is, the larger your frustration can be. And like you said, we’re speculating on what Ludwig might have been experiencing in that situation, but it’s a very similar situation to all golfers, right?
Got a good round going. Was he in the lead at that point? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, you know, things are going really good. Maybe he’s projecting into the future a little bit, who knows. He doesn’t seem like it on the surface. And I’ve got a question about that kind of surface level, what do you know, even keeled sort of thing. But he’s starting to…
Matt Young
Yep, he’s leading by three, I think, or two at the turn.
Josh Nichols
Things are starting to slip, he’s starting, let’s say he’s getting frustrated, what would have served him to do in that moment, say he’s stepping onto 13 tee and things are starting to crumble around him or something, like what, if you were his caddy, how would you be talking to him?
Matt Young
Well, the one thing that, I’ll start with what not to do, because generally we’re good at human beings at doing that. The one thing that’s innate within us, and especially with competitive individuals who play golf as such, is we want to fight that feeling. We want to try and wrestle back the control, wrestle back the momentum of what we’re facing.
But it’s almost like being in a one-person boxing ring. You’re throwing haymakers at fresh air and feeling like you’re being hit from all over the place and you’re tiring yourself out because really you’re in a fight with yourself right there.
And so when it comes to any form of limiting emotion, could be frustration or anything like that, the first thing, the first thing is always to slow down, to slow the tempo down.
Someone might correct me on this, but I believe it was the par 5 11th yesterday, if I’ve got my numbers correct. And he went into the water, he made double. On the next tee, he went chasing. He went chasing, he took driver on a hole, potentially because it was a drivable one. But on a day where, I don’t think, think they said on commentary, no one else was really doing that play at that time.
Why? Because what it is within us as human beings is we go fighting, we go chasing, we try to, no, I’m not gonna let this defeat me, let me get back on top of this. As we found yesterday, that sort of compounds where people are.
So if I was on the bag right there, I’d be slowing that tempo down, not getting caught up. Just because the tempo of life situation at that stage goes wrong doesn’t mean that I need to then quicken my tempo.
You know, he’s called the Iceman for a reason, like he’s cool, calm, completely relaxed. In those moments, that’s the first thing that people do wrong, is they get caught up and broiled up in that fight.
So like I say, the thing to do is to recognise that, see that this situation is trying to quicken me up, see that this is trying to speed up my tempo, and almost do the adverse of that. No. We take a beat here, take a moment, recenter, recalibrate, right, where do I move forward there? Then you’re not caught up in that hole.
Josh Nichols
Do you, what is, what is like the literal physical way of doing that slowing down? Is there, is there like a protocol that a golfer could do?
Matt Young
Well there’s three ways, three ways that you govern any human emotion. Any human emotion, any feeling is governed in three ways. It is governed through what you do with your body, what you do with your mental focus, and the internal dialogue.
Now, it’s almost like driving a car. It needs an engine, it needs transmission, gearbox and it needs a steering wheel. Now without those things you’re not driving that car. Without these things in place you’re not taking control of how you feel.
So when it comes to those types of ways, this is where I say the body, it starts to tense, we start to breathe quicker, start to cool physiological changes we want to be aware of. My focus, now I’m starting to think, okay, there’s eight holes left and I should probably try and make birdie here to try and get that two-shot gap back and my mental focus.
Then my internal dialogue. Are you sure this is for you? Are you sure you’ve got this? Are you sure you’re in the right place? Come on, what are you thinking about that?
All of these things, they work a bit like a triage with each other. They sort of marry off each other. That when you take control of one, two, you’ll see definite changes. Three, you’ll be in complete control. That would always be my focus, whoever I’m working with.
Josh Nichols
Right, so you would address, okay, I’ve got this. I can tell I am physically moving faster, I’m physically breathing faster, my eyes are physically moving faster, my mind is going more places than it normally does when I’m kind of in control, and my dialogue is getting maybe predictive of the future or ruminating of the past or maybe even self-criticizing.
Those three are the… any one of those three can be detrimental to a round of golf, but likely when you’re in that sort of situation, all of them are all happening at once.
So if we were to zoom out a little bit, why does that situation cause that? Because it’s just golf, right? If you think about it, it is just golf. It’s a game and it’s a thing that Ludwig wants to do. Again, with sensitivity of Ludwig, if you’re listening to this for some strange reason, somehow you landed on this podcast, we are not trying to guess what you’re thinking, but we’re using you as an example.
Why does that happen to him in that moment? Or why does that happen to us when golf is just a game?
Matt Young
Honestly, the easiest way to answer that is that probably happens in all areas of life. I mean, I’m not sure about yourself and your family or what you’re like with Christmas and that, but my family will get like that over a game of Monopoly at Christmas.
Exactly, there’s some body tension, there’s some focus, there’s some words that are used that are perhaps not the most ideal.
We’re innate human beings. We are emotional human beings. That’s how we all operate. It’s how we all live. And ultimately when it comes to what we are doing on a moment to moment basis, we all ultimately are responding to external stimuli. We’re responding to a comment. We’re responding to our ball going into the lake. We’re responding to all of these different things that are ultimately sparking different parts within me.
Added to the fact that, you know what, it’s the players’ championship. Added to the fact that, you know what, let’s be clear, it could be around on a Sunday with your friends at your local course. It means something to us, it’s pride, it’s personal value, it’s self-worth, it’s success, it’s failure, it’s all of these things that come into it.
So why do we let it affect us? Because ultimately, we’re gonna feel some type of way about anything. We’re gonna feel some type of way about wanting to play Monopoly or play a local game with our friends. And when we’re in those types of situations, people are always emotionally gonna be invested into the very things that they choose to partake in.
And that’s why if things are great, you see him strolling down the fairway or any golfer for that matter strolling, calm. But then external stimuli can change that. Someone starts climbing the leaderboard, a wayward shot, a bad bit of fortune on the course, whatever it may be, and all of a sudden you start to see that triage, the body, the focus, the internal dialogue, although we can’t see it, you can sort of see it through the screen when someone starts to change. That whole mannerism changes in that way.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, they care. We care is why we get so invested. Again, back to the delta between reality and expectations, we only have expectations because it’s something we care about. And if the thing that we care about is not going the way that we want it to, then we start to kind of react in these different ways.
I love what you say to kind of like fight it and grasp to fix it and get it back to go the way that we wanted to with this kind of heavy-handed approach. And it’s not, if ever, it’s not voluntary, right? It’s not something we’re choosing. We’re not choosing to speed up our heart rate, we’re not choosing for our mind to go darting all over the place.
So if that’s the case, and we’re not choosing and it’s involuntary, can it be expected to not ever feel that way? Is that a fair expectation to say, when I get in the situation, I want to get to where I never start rushing, or my heart rate starts going crazy, or my mind starts darting, or my inner dialogue starts getting super negative, or future or past. Is that a fair expectation? I mean, is that something that we could strive to do?
Matt Young
I mean, we can strive. I personally wouldn’t say it’s a fair expectation on yourself though, because as I say, we’re emotional human beings at some level.
I’m gonna go back to a different sport, but Novak Djokovic wrote with this. And I’m paraphrasing slightly, but he was speaking, he’s being interviewed. And they said, one of your greatest gifts is your mental strength. And he said, so I must stop you. He was like, this isn’t a gift. This is a skill that I’ve worked on. The same way that I work on my forehand, my backhand, my slice. This is something that I work on.
And he said, the biggest difference between me and the other people that I play against, that you say that I have a gift of mental strength, is that these things will happen to me. I’ll feel annoyed, I’ll feel frustrated, I’ll feel maybe an expletive word in there. But for as quickly as I feel it, I eradicate it and I move past it and I’m ready for the next shot. I’m ready for the next point.
And that’s a big thing of what we see. This comes back to what I said, you know, hit the ball in the water on 12, fine. It can happen. If you go fighting that and chasing that, you then take driver on 13 when it was perhaps a three-wood or even five-wood, and now all of a sudden you’re in a place where you’re caught up in that.
The ability to be able to recenter yourself, ability to be able to what I call regain emotional control is the absolute foundation of what allows someone to stay in control of how they feel.
Josh Nichols
That’s well said. So should we…
Should we try to care less? I know I’m maybe asking silly questions, but should we try to care less about, should we try to narrow up the delta between expectations and reality? Should we try to lower expectations, care less? Yeah, should we try to care less?
Matt Young
I think logically that’s a lovely and easy thing to say. Care less, don’t care as much, don’t worry. You’re still going home to a beautiful family, a beautiful home. It’s lovely on paper to say. It’s great on paper.
Prior to what I do now, I was a professional football player, for you guys, a soccer player. And so I’ve been in those high performance, high elite environments. I’ve been there when the needle is there, you’re on the brink, every moment matters. And people go, just calm down. You know what, I would if it was that easy I would.
And so I don’t necessarily think it’s a case of caring less. What I think in my viewpoint and my expertise in this area it’s about is about how connected can you be to being free in those environments.
For example, someone might feel intense pressure and scrutiny when they are stood over a four foot putt in front of their local Sunday group that they play in and it’s for $20 and they feel quite an intense pressure with that. Great.
Well let’s rewind back to last year. McElroy stood over a what, two, three footer after just bogeying the 18th at Augusta to now win and put all those demons to bed and do all of this. I don’t think that’s about caring less. I think what it’s about is about the more that you expose yourself and the more that you become comfortable in more quote unquote pressurized, emotionally intense environments, the freer you’re able to be in anything less than that.
So for example, then you go back to your Sunday game for 20 bucks with that four footer and you don’t even think twice about it.
I think the notion of trying to care less gets into that whole grappling with where I currently am and do this and do that. I think it’s more of a case of, in my language, enhancing someone’s emotional capability to be free in highly pressurized environments, which is a big thing of what I work on when I’m working with golfers or whoever it may be, because then the environment is what it is. We can’t dictate that. What we can dictate is how free I can be in those environments.
Josh Nichols
Right, it’s not about not caring, it’s about caring and embracing the situation for what it is. So you said freedom, that is an endpoint that I think a lot about. So if freedom, let’s say, is our ultimate goal, what is the opposite of freedom? And what causes that? Whatever the opposite is, what causes that?
Matt Young
The opposite is caging, the opposite is limitation, the opposite is being completely within ourselves to a point that we can’t experience where we currently are. We get drawn out of the present, like what you said, and we’re focused on the future or the past. That’s the opposite of freedom.
When everyone, whoever’s listening to this has experienced freedom in their life, it has been because they’ve been completely present in what they’re experiencing right now. That’s what creates freedom in someone’s life.
And so the opposite of that is like I say, is limitation, it’s caging. Now the key factors around that and the things that I obviously live by but also work with people on is becoming acutely aware of what is bringing me out of that place. Because if I’m aware of the road signs before I get onto the highway, I’m not already then just being carried with the flow of traffic and I’m getting caught up in all of this. No, I’ve been very aware of that. Okay, there’s a few things here that leading me off course. What can I do to bring myself back to the here and now?
It’s always a, for most people, it’s an unconscious thing. Again, I don’t want to speak on him too heavily, because like I said, I don’t know him personally. I don’t know what was going through his head. I don’t know where he was at yesterday. But perceiving what I saw on that screen yesterday from the comfort of my own home, there’s a mistake that happens on 11th with a par 5, but then we chase, we chase that particular, let me try and put that right, let me try and put that right, let me try and put that right.
But then all of a sudden we’re not free anymore. We’re caged, we’re limited because now we’re being dictated to, now we’re focusing on the future and I’m doing that because of what’s happened in the past.
The key element of that is how free, like I say, we can create those moments within ourselves. And the big reason is that is becoming aware of where I then get pulled on.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, the idea of, something’s going wrong, I need to fix it, that’s based on the understanding or the belief that something is going wrong. You have to first believe that something is going wrong in order to need to make it right.
And that doesn’t have to be seen that way. You don’t have to see double bogey, bogey, ball in the water as necessarily something going wrong. It might be…
It’s much easier said than done to say it’s not good or bad that that ball went in the water. It just did. Right? That’s nice to say. That’s much harder to live out. Is that something to be strived for?
I just played on Wednesday or Thursday last week, and that reality versus expectations gap was pretty large. I was not playing well and the conditions were tough and gross and I just couldn’t feel my game. I couldn’t make anything happen and it was getting very frustrating. I was getting tired and mentally exhausted and I felt like things were wrong. I felt like I needed to fix things.
So should I be getting to a place where nothing is wrong, things just are? Is that the sort of mentality I should be striving for?
Matt Young
Again, yes in logic, that’s a lovely thing to say, but we’re not robots. We’re not robots. In life, trying to echo what I said previously, we’re human beings. I’m not saying that, you know, I hit a bad shot or I have mistakes that happen or things go wrong in my life and I’m just like, you know what, I’m going to stay emotionally free. Like I have my outburst. I have my moment. There I say I do slam my club into the ground every now and again.
But I’ve always come back to it. It’s the, I suppose the speed at which that can happen and then you bring yourself back to that center.
So for example, and again, I might butcher this slightly, but for as far as I’m aware, and I’ve always used this, Tiger Woods used to have a visualization technique, I don’t know if he still does, with the blue line effect. And after any particular shot, he would visualize a line on the ground and the moment he moved past that line that he would visualize on the ground, whatever has been has gone. Now I’m focused on where I am and what I’m now moving into.
And arguably the greatest golfer that’s ever lived. And the reason in my language of what that afforded him to do was stay free, stay present, not be emotionally dictated to by circumstance or event or chasing after this because I’ve just made bogey and whatever else it may be. The line.
There’s that line on what’s been, now I can move forward with that.
Josh Nichols
To keep it players championship focused, Cameron Young, the ultimate winner of the event, he on 18, in the post round interview, someone asked, talk me through your thinking on that shot and he said, first off, I think he said two or three things, but two things stood out to me. He said, first, I made sure that I was committed to my line. And then second, he said, I told myself, I’m gonna hit the best shot of my life right here.
And those two were really cool to hear him say. But on that second one, I’m gonna hit the best shot of my life here. Why do you think that worked for him or why do think that works in general?
Matt Young
You’ve just mentioned two of the three of the triage that I said. His internal focus was, I’ve got what you just said there, a commitment to myself, commitment to my line, internal focus backed up within a dialogue, I’m gonna hit the best shot of my life right now.
And my bet was, and as I watched it you got this perception as well, he was fully committed to that within his body and the way that he carried himself as well, which runs a bit deeper with the neuroscience of the way our body communicates to our brain as well.
He has a triage in place. He hits the shot. And as the stat that I’ve read this morning, he’s hit the longest drive on 18, 375 yards since like, Optostats began in 2003.
It’s incredible. Given the pressure, given the external circumstance, given all of these things, this is what I’m talking about. He allowed himself to stay free in the moment, present in the moment. Why? By taking control of that triage, becoming, whether he was or he wasn’t, becoming acutely aware of the other things that are going on. And that’s what’s then allowed, part of what’s then allowed him to go and make a very simple par. Win the tournament. Wonderful end.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. Yeah, the, I love the triage of the, I’ve got the three things of physical focus and inner dialogue because the physiological things that happen are definitely, I guess all three of them can be involuntary, like I’ve said, but where I’m focusing and what my inner dialogue is, and to a degree how I physically feel, but maybe not as much, those two, the focus and the inner dialogue, are very controllable. Right, you can choose where to put your attention, you can choose how you’re talking to yourself, and what’s cool about them being controllable is you can have a process in place for every single shot to make sure you are doing those things well.
That brings up pre-shot routine or pre-shot process or that sort of thing. How, and I wanna make this you focused. I wanna talk about Matt’s golf game for a sec. When you are under situations like that, do you, or in general, do you have like a regimented process that you go through or is it more fluid? Is there something you always say to yourself? Is there a mantra? Is there anything like that that you routinely do or is it more fluid?
Matt Young
No, I do have a certain routine. I don’t have necessarily what I’d say like what you see with some guys with a pretty sharp routine of sorts.
But one thing that I will always, always, always do is, and it’s probably so ingrained at me at this stage, is my whole focus is, like I’ve just said there, where’s my body?
If I’m stood over a ball and I can feel myself tense, I can feel these types of things in my hands, my grip, whatever it may be, I’m gripping the club too tight because I’m nervous and pulling it or whatever. Let’s shake that one out. Let’s shake that one out. No, because I know that, and I know you mentioned about the inner focus and I know you mentioned about the internal dialogue there, but the body is the number one.
So without getting too sciencey with and too deep on this, our body sends neuro signals, neural pathways, the neurology of us. The body sends signals to the brain of how we should think and feel.
And so 80% of what’s called our parasympathetic nervous system, which governs our rest and digest, our breathing, all of these things are respiratory. 80% of those neurons are afferent, meaning they go from body to mind. Only 20% are efferent, meaning they go from mind to body.
That’s why when we were watching the players yesterday, or we’re watching the Masters in a couple of weeks, Joe Blogs sat at home, could look at them and go, he doesn’t really seem on it today. We’re just seeing someone on a screen, but 80% of the way that they’re communicating within themselves gives off a certain emotion. And then we pick up on that, whoever’s watching this.
And so when it comes to my golf routine, the one thing that I’m always very, very astute on is my physiology. Where’s my posture? Where’s my breathing? Am I hunched over? Am I back? Where my eye position? Eye position is huge, huge. When you look down, you access your inner feelings and self-talk. When you look up, you access the visual creative part of your brain.
When you see someone high on confidence, they very rarely are looking down like this, because they’re not stuck in their own head. They’re out there. They’re present.
So these are all small nuances, but I suppose they’re so ingrained in me at this stage that that’s where it is.
Whenever I, my internal focus, when I get to a shot, I didn’t have a pre-shot routine, I suppose, thinking about this, I suppose a little bit I do, I’ll always sort of, two little swings of a club, and then I’ll always step back and just visualize and see that shot. I’ll always just see whatever it is I’m looking to create. I’ll see it wherever it is.
Josh Nichols
Like a literal shot tracer in the air, sort of.
Matt Young
Literal shot tracer. And I do it from tee to green. I do it with my putts as well. Sometimes with my putts I’ll sort of roll the putt from my hand and see it rolling because it gives me a focus of, I suppose the Cameron Young effect by the way, no relation to anyone thinking that. When I roll that putt, I almost see it happen and I’m like cool, I’m committed to my line then.
Then my focus is always, I say literally three words for myself. Hit your shot. That’s all I say. Hit your shot. And I say it time and time and time, hit your putt, whatever it may be.
I say those three words and that, I suppose, gives me my focus of how I play my golf game. And at this stage, it’s not so much something that I would say is a pre-shot routine, but I suppose in some ways it is because it’s just so ingrained in me now that I go, right, this is where I need to be. Cool, see the shot, great, hit your shot, ball, play. And that’s generally the way that I’d approach it.
Josh Nichols
Do you, is there a, this is in the weeds too much, does your shot tracer in your mind have a color, the same color every time?
Matt Young
Great, great question. That’s a really, and I’ll tell you why it’s such a great question, because it used to. It used to.
And then being the analytically sort of focused, I would then start to think why are you seeing it in that color? Why is it not in this color? Maybe put it in a softer yellow because you’re not hitting it as hard. And then for your harder shots, put it in a stronger red and things like this. And so honestly, it’s crazy to a point where now, no.
There are no colours. Now I almost just see the ball fly a bit of where it goes and I just see the shot and generally I’m looking at the apex. I know roughly the club I’m in, I’m just looking at the apex of where the shot’s being hit and that’s that.
It’s a really great question because for a while I did overthink that probably too much.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, it needs to be this color in order for me to feel this way. That’s an interesting one though. It doesn’t seem like the worst thing in the world to do unless it bridges over into overthinking.
On the 80%, 20% sort of dynamic, kind of the body tells the brain how to feel and we’re very body-centric, kinda neck down creatures. Do you believe in sort of like a, for lack of a better phrase, because this is negatively skewed, like a fake it till you make it sort of feeling of like, I’m going to do these physical things even though mentally I don’t feel like this at all. I feel like panicked and whatnot, but I’m going to stand up tall and look out on the horizon and do all these physical things despite how I feel as a way to communicate to myself?
Does it need to be more like, you need to be in that mental frame of mind for that to therefore become, you know, posture in and of itself doesn’t do anything. You have to be in a mental frame of mind that creates confidence that leads to good posture. I don’t know, how do you see that?
Matt Young
Yeah, it’s a great question. No, I don’t believe in fake it till you make it. If I’d, again, coming back to it, if I was on the bag for Ludwig yesterday and I just said, walk tall and look up towards the sky in those moments, would that have necessarily helped him potentially? Might have helped him get out of his head a little bit from where he may have been overthinking potentially. I’m going to keep adding potentially where he may have been. But no, and it’s not bad advice.
But I wouldn’t necessarily say that I would believe in a notion where you begin to mask over certain things. Because ultimately, I come back to it, the ultimate goal here is freedom. Freedom in our approach.
Now, if I’m walking tall with my chest out and I’m breathing deep and I’m sending those signals to my brain of how to think and feel, that’s wonderful. That’s really, really great.
But if I’m not either one fully on board with the process of why I’m doing these things, two not acutely aware of the shift that is going to occur for me and three think that whatever’s happening to me is stronger than that anyway, it’s going to fall flat on its face. It’s gonna fall flat on its face.
Now I’m speaking about this from experience at this stage, having helped thousands of people and done it myself for years and years and years. So I know it, so I put it into place. But when I’m working with someone, a lot of the time it’ll be, yeah, but what if this, but how will I deal with this, but what about if this situation and things like that.
And I’ll be going, right, cool. And generally with each individual, I’ll always bring it back to a certain question because a question allows you to be back in the center. What is my main focus right now? If I could control one thing to put me back in control right now what would it be?
Everything feels like it’s moving too fast, everything’s getting away from me, I’m feeling tense. What allows me to feel free? What’s something I can do right now to stop getting caught up in these things?
Because what that does is it acts as almost like an interruption for them, for them to then create the space to then go right. One thing that makes me feel more in control is when I then take control of my physiology in a better way. One thing that makes me feel more in control is when I see my shot, is when I use the Tiger Woods line analogy. Great, that’s put you back in place of freedom as opposed to just going well I heard Matt’s technique of do this, do this, do that. No, that doesn’t, because we haven’t differentiated the difference between interrupting that part of it and then putting myself back in control.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Josh Nichols
Yes, yeah, because if you just kind of like I’m gonna do this and it’s gonna make me feel better it can almost backfire because now you’re going into fix mode, which communicates back to you that I’m broken. So I need to do this physical thing, this technique and it’s gonna make me feel better.
And then on top of that when it doesn’t make me feel better now you are kind of double, you’re doing double damage because you’re in fix mode and it’s not working. So now you’re maybe grasping even more. And that’s where I start to get into, maybe I need a different swing thought. Maybe I’ve been trying this and I’m kind of hitting it off the heel. Maybe all this practice I’ve done in the last month has been for nothing and it’s actually been creating more problems. So I need to change.
So I start changing things mid-round. You would think the host of a podcast like this would not struggle with these things, but like you said with Djokovic, he struggled and he’s one of the best of all time.
So going into that fix mode as a way to combat what you’re experiencing, like you’ve said, that’s letting your circumstances dictate what you do instead of giving yourself space between you and your circumstances, and that space is an opportunity to say, how do I want to proceed? I love that question thing that you’re talking about.
Matt Young
That’s a beautiful way that you articulated it there. It’s creating that space between reaction to circumstance and me feeling free and in control of my choices of how I’ll deal with the circumstance. Incredibly, incredibly important.
Because as you say, like if I’m hitting a nasty pull hook off the tee every time, it’s not that I’m just gonna go, this circumstance. No, you’ve dropped four shots in the first five holes here because of this pull hook. There needs to be something that changes.
But before I start changing my whole grip and doing this and doing that and trying to react to this in whatever way is that space of, and they’re going to, this is why the question works as the interlude because the question acts as a separator, a space between me going reaction to the pull hook. What do I need to do now to feel a bit more balanced, a bit more control? Just slow your swing speed down a little bit here. That works for me as an example.
Great. My next shot, that feels more flush. All of sudden the next tee, that’s my focus. I hit a perfectly soft baby draw down there, 300 yards, and I go, it wasn’t actually anything to do with my grip. It wasn’t this, it wasn’t that. It was probably because my tempo was too quick that I otherwise wouldn’t have seen if I was reactive to that circumstance.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, yeah tempo. Tempo is, I think, directly related to that three-part physiological focus inner dialogue. I think it goes right with the physiological one, because when you are sped up, your heart rate is sped up, your eyes are… all of the physical functions of your body are sped up, you’re naturally going to… your tempo’s gonna be faster.
And that’s that kind of reaction to, it’s kind of the fight or flight sort of response to an environment that you deem is scary or threatening, or I need to get out of here, or this is broken. I need to fix it or whatever.
So yeah, tempo getting off is circumstances dictating how you proceed as opposed to my circumstances are things that are outside stimuli that are happening around me. How do I want to interact with my circumstances? I love that.
In the book, I think it’s Emotional Agility by Susan David, I don’t know if she came up with this, and I know it’s been talked about since, but she says there needs to be, instead of stimulus and response, or like, right butted up to each other, there’s stimulus pause response, right? There has to be that space, that pause.
So for you, back to kinda like protocols or things Matt does, is there something that you will do when, you know, bunch of stimulus, the pull hooks are happening or whatever, or you’re playing poorly and or things are going really awesome and either way, like your circumstances are starting to pull you with them. Is there something physically you’ll do? Is there like a breath or a go get in the cart and just take a minute or go off walking by yourself or something? Is there something that you do or something that a listener could do?
Matt Young
I mean, I’m a big energy guy. And what I mean by energy guy is when I’m playing well, I want to play quick. I walk down the fairway fast. I want to approach my ball. I want to see my line. I want to do that. And I want to sort of, I wouldn’t say to a point where I’ve sped up my tempo, but I want to do it much more efficiently.
The same can be said though, when things are not going my way. And for me, I just, again, I don’t have a conscious thing with this, but I’m aware of what my barriers are that when I’m not playing well, I will also speed up. I will speed up my pace of walking to the ball. I will speed up my, why? Because I’m probably getting to that right, just get your next one, because this one could be a good one and you can forget about that. That’s when I’m not playing so well.
So for me, I’ll slow down the tempo of my walk. I’ll slow down the tempo of my breath. I’ll slow down the tempo, and this is a big thing for me, of my conversation. Because generally, if I’m talking on the course, I’m talking with people, I might be a little bit more like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, great, yeah, no, no, no. I’ll slow that down.
Because all of these different things, they add into exactly what we’ve been talking about here today to a point where I hit that next shot and I just repeat the past because I’m pretty much exuding that.
And I think it’s the same way it works both sides for me. When I’m playing well, I want to quicken the pace. I want to be more efficient with how I’m playing. When I’m playing badly, I find myself doing that, but not consciously. And that’s the point where I interrupt it.
And then, like I say, whether it’s how quickly I’m driving the cart, I know they sound quite small, but they’re things that dictate the energy and the tempo within me. How fast my conversation is, how quick I’m breathing, how quickly I’m walking, all of these different things that allow me to go right. This is on my tempo. I’m not going to be dictated to by these things out here. This is going to operate on my tempo. This is how fast this is operating and from that place, put myself back in control.
Slow things down, boom. Then you know what? Couple of holes later, I feel like I’m in my groove again. The energy shift is different. I’m carrying a bit of momentum and guess what? I’m back to speeding, talking a bit quicker, but now the momentum has shifted for me.
And that’s sort of often a big part of my game. I love it. I love the game of golf, but I love the 18 different battles I’m in or the however many shots, 75, 80 odd shots that I might have hit on that particular day of me going, yeah, do you know what? That’s where you sped up on that shot. That was a bit slow there and that keeps me coming back again and again.
Josh Nichols
What’s your best score on 18?
Matt Young
My score on 18 is a 4 over 76. So I am a 8 handicapper, as it stands. I’m an 8 handicapper. And funnily enough, my best score was a 4 over 76, which I shot in July of last year in the final of our club competition.
Josh Nichols
Ooh. Let’s go.
Matt Young
So I won and if we talk about all of these things, for me that was my players, that was my Augusta moment. As someone who isn’t a professional golfer but for me working with golfers and obviously seeing it from the outside, but for me that was all of those things that we’ve spoke about here when things speed up, when this happens, you know when you’re leading by two shots and you’re standing on the 17th tee and it’s 180 yard carry over water to a green and if you go long, all of these different things for me were, okay cool, put them into play. So that’s where my best is currently.
Josh Nichols
Was that emotionally exhausting? Was that mentally exhausting? Or did it feel kind of, were you in sort of a state of ease and which side of things was it for you?
Matt Young
On that particular occasion, was a lovely dance between the both because I had the moments at the start and things like this and you know, it’s only a club competition at my local club where I’m a member but there’s a few people standing on the tee. There’s, you know, going off in pairs with this guy and it was very much an initial, okay cool, you’re gonna be, and this was my phrasing, I remember this very clearly, on the drive on the way to the golf club that day, you’re gonna dictate or be dictated to today.
As in, you’re gonna dictate your tempo or you’re gonna be dictated to by your tempo today. The circumstances are gonna dictate you and you’re gonna just have to try and do that, or you’re gonna dictate your tempo.
And I remember the guy I was playing with was a very animated character, very animated. Every birdie putt there was a huge roar, every bogey putt there was a huge roar and he very much was a very animated up down.
So for me I’m like cool, you’re gonna get dictated to by that? You’re gonna get embroiled in that? Does that work for you? Do you want to play that game? If you do, great.
For me as much as I’m a human being and I might miss a putt, what works for me is staying the level. What works for me is that blue line. Take your shot, there’s your line, right there’s my next one.
And for me that was really a case where I enjoyed it, I love it because I’m normally used to being the other side of the rope coaching someone to do these things. Now I was doing it myself and coaching myself in the light of day, it was brilliant.
And as I say, for me, that was just, on that particular day, it was a dance of that and that constant way of, you gonna dictate or be dictated to? And I suppose, fortunately, I can say I dictated my tempo.
Josh Nichols
That’s so cool. Do you ever kind of struggled with a… you’ve talked a lot about limiting beliefs. Have you ever struggled with a limiting belief about your own golf game or have you ever kind of hit a plateau or hit kind of invisible ceiling on your scoring or something and you just can’t break through and you’re starting to get in your head about it and maybe I will never break through. Maybe this is the state of my golf game and I’ll never get better.
I hear that a lot from players and I’ve seen that with other players trying to get to scratch, trying to get to single digits or something. Have you ever struggled with that sort of limiting thing?
Matt Young
In my golf game, no. For the simple reason that when I was in my football career, it was rife. It was rife. There was always limiting beliefs. There was always, you can’t go here or, you’re mentally, come on, try and push through it, try and grind, try and work hard or try and do this, but this might not work because of X. There was all these types of things with that.
For me at this stage with where my golf game’s at, I want to get lower, I will go lower with my scoring and my handicap and things.
I think the limiting beliefs that often hit me now are much more micro. And what I mean by micro, shot to shot, hole to hole type things rather than vast, are you gonna make it to a sub five handicapper? Are you gonna really be able to play as a two, three handicapper?
Because at this stage I’ve been so accustomed to living with that way through football that I see the pitfalls of what not to do, of where to limit myself and cage myself in these types of ways.
So, you know, I don’t speak about this today like I’m an expert golfer, I’m absolutely not. But the emotional and psychology side of these things, which I’m very adept in, I think I’ve used to my advantage in my golf area now, to a point where, like I say, the plan is to go lower and lower and lower and shoot some sub scratch rounds.
Josh Nichols
So to the guy that is stuck, quote unquote stuck, trying to get to scratch, they’re at that four, five, six range. And I bring that one up because that one is a particularly kind of dastardly one because you can shoot, you see how the good shots you hit are just as good as Cameron Young or just as good as Ludwig. And the bad shots you hit are also reminders of your past.
Sometimes you shoot a 90, sometimes you shoot a whatever, mid 70s, and you can see what you’re capable of, but the better you get, the harder it is to continue to get better, right? I guess that would be the law of diminishing returns or something like that. You feel stuck.
What can that player do, do you think, to break through that invisible ceiling?
Matt Young
Well, anyone that feels stuck in a certain area, it’s because their vision for what is possible has been capped. It’s been capped for what they believe to be possible.
So you know what, if I’m stuck at an eight handicap of where I am now, it is because ultimately I don’t foresee a world where I could be a two, three, four, because in my belief system to do that, you need to be playing four five times a week. You need to be chipping and working on your putting and doing these types of things. And all of these beliefs are gonna prohibit me from ever being able to get close to that goal.
And even if I do shoot a sub scratch round, even if I go out tomorrow and I shoot a 69, hey, you know what, I’ve had a good 78 tomorrow probably have an 81. Why? Because my whole belief system is built around a model here that says I’m maxing out what I already can. That’s why I’m stuck at an eight handicapper.
So for anyone who’s listening to that initially I would ask them, because this is often why, what’s the validity in that belief system that you have as to why you can’t be scratch, why you can’t be a one, two handicapper, whether it’s 20 into the teens, whatever it is, whoever’s listening to this, what’s the validity of that particular belief system?
And someone might go, yeah Matt, but I’m not going to be a scratch golfer when I’m currently a 20 playing once a week. Okay, cool, that’s understandable. So that one might be quite valid to you, but before you, you know, the classic saying, before you see the whole staircase, what’s the next step here? Well, to go from 20 to teens. What is one thing that I could do, one thing, and this is always an easy way that I simplify this, one thing that I could do that could advance me in that area.
One thing, if I focused on it for the next day, week, month, six months, that’s gonna take me in that area.
If I’m currently an eight handicapper, and I wanna be sub five, I wanna get to scratch, whatever it may be, I can, I see inside, but I’m stuck here, what’s one thing I could do that could break the mold of that right now? Because once you start to, once I start to question the validity of whatever beliefs I’ve got in place, but then I also go, right, you know what, here’s one step I could do. You know what, just one evening a night, I’m just gonna go and work on my putting. Or you know what, I’m gonna work, go down the gym and work on a little bit more rotation. Whatever it may be.
Then all of a sudden, you’re gonna start to break the barriers in your mind that build this belief as to why you’re stuck. And then all of a sudden, you’re gonna go and hit a shot, and you’re gonna get an extra 10 yards out of it, and it’s not gonna be, that was just a good one. Now that was that core rotation I’ve been working on in the gym.
Now all of a sudden you’re backing up those beliefs with the actions in which you’re taking, you’re no longer stuck. You’re no longer stuck in that place. People are only stuck because they’re capped at what their perception of what’s possible is, where they’re really at.
So that would be the place of where we break that, question the validity. What’s the one step I could do, big or small, that would move me in the direction I want to go.
Josh Nichols
I love that. Okay, Matt at the risk of keeping you all day, I would love to have you on again because I’ve got a slew of things, so many things that I didn’t get to talk to you about because we went so deep on some of these things.
So I appreciate you. I like how you keep things very simple and we also have a practical framework of how to address the kind of three-part interaction with the things that circumstances can do to you. And we have a kind of a three-part practical approach to dealing with them with that physiological, that where’s your attention focused and what are you saying to yourself? That conversation you’re having with yourself. I love that.
So awesome, Matt, I appreciate it. You’ve got your website, matyounglc.com, do I have that correct? Okay, and yes, right, and what else do you have going on? Is that where you would send people? Would you send people somewhere else? Where would you have them?
Matt Young
Is correct. Yep, the letter L, the letter C.
No, mean, we’re naturally active on social media as well in this day and age. Same tag, mattyounglc.com. Same with Instagram or LinkedIn, wherever it may be that people may look at us.
We also have on my website there, we have some free training resources. So there’s like a five day mindset training that can be applicable to people for this very reason. We talk a little bit around identity and what may be keeping people stuck and little bits around that. That’s completely free download for someone who wants to go through with that five days. You’ll be sent five emails on each consecutive day, eight to 12 minutes long trainings that can really help people. So by all means, feel free to enjoy that as well.
Josh Nichols
That’s cool. And I did most of my research watching your YouTube videos. So I would send people there because there’s some awesome stuff. And I don’t know if you have, but I would encourage you to do some golf, maybe a golf specific one or something. Maybe you have, but talk about your own experience, the 76 you shot in the club things, right? So I think that’d be cool.
Matt Young
Yeah, we’ve done some work with that privately, with some clients and with some things like that. So for sure that might be something that we look at, absolutely.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, cool. Okay. Well, I’ll have links to all that stuff in the show notes, but Matt, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure.
Matt Young
Thank you for having me on Josh, I really appreciate you me being here.
