Podcast Transcript
Josh Nichols
Julie Elion, what kind of experience were you having as you were watching Wyndham on Sunday?
Julie Elion
I didn’t know you were gonna start with that. Nerve wracking, excited. I warmed up with him on the range — we did our normal kind of loosening up session. I had already spoken to him on the phone, so the range session was really about loosening him up. I don’t think — I think we talked about surfing actually. Nobody’s caddy knew that.
Josh Nichols
Cool. Does he surf?
Julie Elion
I had just sent him a surfing Instagram thing that I wanted him to make as his goal, which was about riding the waves today. So we were talking about that and then I walked out for his front nine. It became clear on hole two — I mean, it was twenty people deep — that they were cheering when he missed. When I figured that out I was pretty unhappy, but he couldn’t see me and I can’t talk to him. So I stayed out there, but after about eight or nine holes I was like, it’s way easier to see him and how he’s reacting on TV. So I went into the dining area and watched the rest on TV. By the 17th hole I went out and met him again, so I was there on the 18th green when he won. It was nerve-wracking and exciting, but he was masterful in his goals. He did an amazing job.
Josh Nichols
How proud of him are you?
Julie Elion
It’s a hard thing to say. Sometimes I say those words — I’m proud of you — and it sounds a little parental to me. So I always try to think of a different way of saying that. But I am proud of him. I’m proud of him for himself, that he stayed in that mental tenacity. It was really unbelievable. I think proud is a good word.
Josh Nichols
And there were certainly waves with the pre-round mental goal of riding the waves. When you say the cheering against him — that obviously was a main thing that stuck out. That was infuriating?
Julie Elion
Yeah. Infuriating. There were moments of that, yeah.
Josh Nichols
I know you wanna like yell at the whole crowd to stop. But the reason I asked what kind of experience you were having — you would tell a player to maintain composure, handle the anxiety and all that. Do you feel like you experience a lot of what you would hope a player wouldn’t experience?
Julie Elion
That’s great. I made a joke when I went in to the group I was with. I said, I gotta go talk to somebody — because I could tell I was not doing what I was asking Wyndham to do. I’ve worked really hard on myself, which is partly why I feel like I can help somebody else — been there, done that, and still do that. One thing I’m really focused on with my clients and with myself is being honest with how you’re feeling. I’m not somebody who gives a goal that says just go out and be positive. It’s more like — I just saw a great Instagram post from the sports psychologist from the Seahawks, and he said name your feelings. I always say that. I say to my players, I’m angry, I’m frustrated, I’m exhausted. Don’t skip the feelings. Be honest with yourself and then go back to getting into your goals.
I was doing that with myself out there. This is really hard to listen to. I can’t see anything and I can’t talk to him. We had a long talk the night before — I think as the drinking got heavier in the afternoon, you’re gonna get some pretty hard remarks. So we had trained for it, but I had to deal with my own feelings. And I did eventually, but at first it was tough.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. And playing with Scotty, and what Scotty was trying to accomplish, and the big lead, and New York maybe — it was just a perfect storm.
Julie Elion
It was a lot. And I had to also think — what if he doesn’t win? He had a six shot lead the night before. That’s also a really hard thing in my job, because I would have been really disappointed, but I have to be the coach. So I was looking at that — he might not win — and thinking about what I’m gonna say and where I’m gonna be and all that.
Josh Nichols
Is that part of a conversation you’d have with a player the night before? Almost like a pre-acceptance of any outcome — you might not win, there’s inherent uncertainty and that’s okay. Like a pre-mortem?
Julie Elion
Not the winning part, because what we really want to do is win the day mentally. So we talk about winning the day mentally and afterwards we debrief how he did mentally. It’s more about winning the day. I mean, of course we all want him to win, but really we’re working towards him practicing these goals so that he does win.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Do all these things kind of zoomed in and then we’ll get to the end of the tournament and zoom out — and I won, they’re handing me a trophy.
Julie Elion
Right. And how did we win? He’s playing right now at the Travelers and he had some all-nighters and a lot of great celebrating and media, but he also wants to play well. We had to reset goals knowing he’s tired, knowing he’s so happy, but he still wants to go play great at the Travelers.
Josh Nichols
What’s your goal working with Wyndham? What’s the outcome you’re trying to get for him?
Julie Elion
We can keep it at Wyndham, but it’s also all my clients. I couldn’t give him specific goals in a very specific way if I didn’t know him really well. Our work is way before the final round of the US Open. It’s every week. It’s long sessions every week talking about anything.
I just came out with a book — Mastering Your Mental Game — and I talk a lot about looking in the mirror, digging deep and knowing yourself. Being really honest with what you want to accomplish. If you’re just out there playing fun rounds, don’t get so mad because you’re not working at it. But if you really want to work at it, go practice your mental game. I really believe in strategies and habits — little victories get the bigger victory. That’s Wyndham-centric, but it’s also all my clients. And myself.
Josh Nichols
On page five you said, when I begin talking with a client, we work to excavate all the material that’s under the surface — history that can prevent anyone from becoming their best as a golfer or being their best selves. When you say excavate all the material, describe all the material.
Julie Elion
It’s a lifetime of material. I give people a list — I want them to send me ten things they’re really good at mentally and ten things they need to improve on. Not things they’re bad at. But then as we get to know each other, the rapport builds and I hear stories about their coaches, their families, how golf started, how any sport started. As we get to know each other they start remembering stories sometimes. It’s therapy-like, where I’m just asking a lot of questions and listening, and any story I use as education to help them learn about themselves. It can be anything.
Josh Nichols
As I’m reading the book, you draw a distinction several times between a performance coach, a mental coach, and a proper sports psychologist. The way you describe that distinction, it almost sounds like your Venn diagram overlaps way more with a therapist. It’s almost like a player could cover a lot of this just by going to therapy.
Julie Elion
I think so. The performance stuff — this could be therapy. I don’t have a doctorate, but I’ve done a lot of graduate school. There’s a therapeutic side, but where it gets a little gray is the performance goals might not be a specific kind of therapy. Like, okay, I’m gonna set goals for my round tomorrow or my hard conversation with somebody. But it just depends what kind of therapy you’re doing.
Josh Nichols
Because you talk a lot about digging up someone’s past and their relationship with their parents — that inner child sort of work where all these things don’t necessarily have anything to do with golf, but they show up there. If I look at myself and a lot of golfers, the relationship with dad is very mixed up with golf. Golf and dad are just very mixed up. It’s not that way for everybody, but it’s definitely my story — how golf was this thing I had to do well in order to feel like I was getting his approval. So golf is there as a component, but it’s really relationship with dad, or relationship with parents, or coaches.
Julie Elion
If any of that is holding someone back or showing up on the golf course or in the boardroom, then I think it’s important. The whole idea of the book is dig deep and know yourself. Through that process you might realize you’re showing up to the boardroom insecure, or something’s triggering you, or you feel like you’re not as good as everybody else. So you’re doing a lot of comparing. To me it’s about knowing that. If you want to know that. If you don’t want to know that, I don’t judge you. But my theory is if you really want to get better at something, know that.
My gosh, you can imagine the stories in this twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven year career that I’ve heard. Both amazing parents and amazing coaches, but also awful, dreadful, terrible coaches and parents. And like I keep hearing myself say — if there are people listening who just want to go play golf, fine. But I’m just saying, if you really want to get better, be willing to look at yourself to see what’s holding you back.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. The probably the number one thing I hear players talk about is fear of other people’s opinions — embarrassment, social elements, needing to perform. That’s probably linked to childhood somehow. As a kid you either weren’t told you were good enough, or you were only told you were good enough when you did well. So the relationship with dad, or parents, or coaches.
Julie Elion
Or you measure yourself by comparing to other people. And that’s just a slippery slope. Golf is that way — you have a score and somebody playing next to you might have a better score. So it’s kind of hard not to slip into that.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, it’s very meritocratic. And something you said in the book floored me. You said the bind of trauma loses its hold on a person when we start to identify the hurt and the memories and forge a different relationship to those events. Almost like reactions to something are a habit — a default. You just by default react a certain way to a certain situation. But you can choose to act differently. Is that how you think of it?
Julie Elion
Wyndham was a masterclass in that. I say a lot — it’s not what happens to us, it’s how we respond to what happens to us. What was happening to him on Sunday, he was a masterclass in responding. We had trained for that. But I also think — and this is a twist — some of the things we use to cope with stress when we were younger actually worked. Coping mechanisms from when we were younger might actually be working against us now. The only way to know that is to understand it inside yourself, figure out what coping mechanisms you’re using to deal with stress or pressure, and then work through them. Because if it was working for you then but it’s not working for you now, you want to know that.
Josh Nichols
Yes. I think it was Judson Brewer — he used the phrase “update the reward value” of a habit or a response. So perfectionism would drive you to the golf course and you wouldn’t rest on your laurels, you’d be driven by this obsession to improve. But now that obsession might be adding too much pressure. Is that kind of what you’re getting at?
Julie Elion
That’s right. And it’s also one of the reasons it doesn’t work for me and my clients to say don’t be angry. Because — my agent told me this yesterday and I think I put it in the book — depression is anger turned inward. So I’m not saying, you know, you’re really pissed you hit a bad shot. I say — which we said earlier — name that you’re feeling that. Prepare that you might feel that. Then the five second rule, thirty second rule, whatever. Move on. Feel the emotion through the round. If it’s anger, note that you’re feeling it, move through it, and switch the narrative.
Josh Nichols
Obviously — and this might be the elephant in the room — Wyndham and anger kind of follow each other as far as the public narrative goes. With experiences he’s had. Is anger bad? Is that how you talk about it with Wyndham — this is bad, we need to fix this, we need to change this?
Julie Elion
We did Full Swing — I don’t know, season two, episode three, it was called Mind Game. Me and Wyndham were on that. They were filming through his 2022-2023 season. And he says himself — he didn’t like feeling angry. He didn’t like how he was treating himself or other people. He said, I don’t want to feel this way. I wish I had a magic wand, but I can’t just make it go away. And he is very committed to figuring out where it came from and how to move through it. Not just Wyndham — I’d say most of my clients have some anger issues if they’re really committed competitors. Every one of them, to tell you the truth.
He was committed to getting through that. Progress isn’t always in a straight line and he’s learned a lot about himself. The last thing I want is for someone to judge themselves for getting angry. We actually just want them to feel it for a little bit. Try not to hurt yourself or anyone else or any property. Feel it. Name it — there’s the anger showing up. Then get to the other side of it.
The anger in the locker room — if we want to go back to Wyndham — he’s upset in that moment. And I think partly why I’ve been getting tired of the narrative is, anybody who’s screaming things at the US Open or saying stuff on social media, who hasn’t gotten angry or kicked a can or thrown a golf club? They get paid a lot of money, they’re role models, they shouldn’t behave like that — I hear that. But I actually think it’s beautiful to show that you’re vulnerable and you’re working on it. What else is there?
Josh Nichols
Yes. That is such — I’m getting chills thinking about this. Wyndham in particular, but maybe golfers in general — if they are role models, then it’s even more important for them to show it’s okay to express emotion. Express, not bottle up. Wyndham’s an awesome version of that.
Julie Elion
He’s a great role model for that. Okay, I don’t like feeling this way — where’s it coming from? And he’s getting the success. We talk about climbing Everest — you’re gonna have to pause and wait and get your breath, you might slip, you have to rest and then go again, you wait for the weather. Our mental health journey is very similar. How cool that he’s got a platform and a microphone to say, look, it’s hard sometimes and I’m working on it. I just can’t think of anything better to say, really.
Josh Nichols
That’s such an underrated element. The role model doesn’t need to exhibit perfect behavior — that’s just like, what? I’m so glad you said that.
Julie Elion
And anybody who’s listening — any role model — hasn’t had a hard night at home or lost their temper? Whoever they are, we put them on pedestals, but they’re human beings. They have hard things going on at home, people getting sick, life happening. There’s nothing better than somebody saying, okay, this isn’t easy, and I’m choosing to be your role model by being okay with being vulnerable and committing to doing the work.
Josh Nichols
So I’m curious about this one — it’s kind of a conundrum to me. How do we balance acknowledging the importance of a round of golf versus reframing how important it seems? Do you say, yeah, the final round of the US Open is different, we need to acknowledge that? But also, do you try to help players bring it down in importance?
Julie Elion
First of all, I know them pretty well and I’m helping them know themselves. There are some clients — men and women — where I’d say absolutely, use visualization. I had an LPGA player ask me, should I see myself holding the trophy? And I said absolutely. Not on every shot, but yeah, what a great visual. I’d much rather, if you’re gonna fantasize about something, make it positive. How many of us go, my God, what if I play like crap today? It’s all fantasy, it’s all in the future. So you might as well think good about it.
But to answer the question specifically — I really believe in being honest with yourself. The round of golf might be really important to you, so own that. And then, okay, how am I going to deal with the nerves on the first tee? What am I going to feel if it’s not going my way? Prepare. Prepare for that.
Josh Nichols
Yeah. The idea of adjusting your baseline — kind of raising it up. Even down to something as hard a number as heart rate. Your resting heart rate is sixty. It is not going to be sixty throughout Sunday at the US Open. So go ahead and realize that.
Julie Elion
Or wait — maybe it will be. I don’t want to plant a negative thought in there. But you’re right, most likely. So how do we prepare for that? I would be very curious to know if Wyndham had one of his Oura rings on. Which he did not, but he demonstrated such calm that maybe he trained so well for that Sunday that his heart rate wasn’t crazy. A lot of these athletes do play with their Oura rings and they do look at their data.
Josh Nichols
So it’s kind of adjusting your expectation — if my resting heart rate is at a hundred all Sunday, I’m not gonna try to make myself get down to sixty. I’m gonna say, okay, my baseline’s just gonna be different today. Is that how you think of it? Or do you say there’s a standard for you — there’s an anchor — and we need to always find a way to get you back down to that?
Julie Elion
If you’re digging deep and learning about yourself, then okay, this could possibly get out of hand. I’m gonna get really stressed or nervous. So how am I gonna deal with those feelings? Then use the mental goals, or have a mantra that brings you back to a calmer place or reminds you why you’re doing it. I always say the pre-shot is like comfort food — you know what spaghetti and meatballs is gonna be. So if that’s your favorite food, let’s make your pre-shot like that. You know it, it’s calming, you know how it feels. You might not know how you’re gonna feel overall, but you can train for adversity.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Yeah, it’s the lighthouse in the storm. You can always return to this no matter what chaos is going on around you, because nothing can truly affect you in your pre-shot routine bubble.
Julie Elion
I love that you said that. That’s right. And it’s true.
Josh Nichols
When your players are out there and they’re not playing freely — playing tentative or guarded or scared — do you have a way you commonly help a player play more freely? Do you look at it as an in-the-moment tool, like a breathing technique? Or more holistic — there’s something going on that’s causing this, and we need to be thinking about that?
Julie Elion
We wouldn’t want to think about the deeper stuff when we’re playing — hopefully we’ve talked about it and journaled about it before. Out there, deep abdominal box breathing — there’s all these breathing techniques that I think are huge for calming the nervous system. I had physical therapy yesterday and the therapist said I was breathing so shallow. Deeper breathing is something we all have access to and can go there in a second.
I also don’t like any self-judgment when you’re out there. If you’re swinging tight, observe it. That’s actually a chapter in the book — observe it, don’t judge it. You have a long walk from your drive on the tee box to your ball. You’ve got all this time to reset, not judge, be your own caddy, and keep good thoughts in your head.
There’s also something called NLP — Neurolinguistic Programming — which talks about anchors. Somebody might take the Velcro on and off their glove as a sound that reminds them of their goals. Or we write goals on scorecards, or tell the caddy. I think of it like the old cameras where you’d turn the lens to bring your focus in. Anything that can do that for you is important. And a lot of people don’t eat well, or are too nauseous to eat, but there’s tons of science that says you need your blood sugar at a certain level. There are all these tools that just help.
Josh Nichols
I played a competitive round, a qualifier, a few weeks back. I got to about hole thirteen or fourteen and had a realization — I have been swinging guarded and putting tentative this whole time. If I keep doing this I’m gonna keep shooting seventy-six, seventy-seven and keep not qualifying. I might as well free up, let it rip, lean in, give it my best. Worst case I shoot a seventy-seven, but I actually give myself a chance. It almost felt like freedom was just a choice I could make in the moment. Have I just done enough work over the years to allow myself to make that choice? Or is that something any player can do at any given moment — just choose to swing freely?
Julie Elion
Yes and yes. Sometimes I ask the question before we talk after a round — what would you like to tell me you did well mentally? And I’ll often hear, I just want to swing free, I want to swing with confidence. I rarely hear in the professional golf world that my swing felt great. So even the pros are dealing with their swings and swing thoughts and the technical stuff. But from a mental standpoint, you gotta just play with what you’ve got.
Butch Harmon said to me — if you’re just staring at leaderboards or super aware of what’s happening out there, have a go-to shot. Have a go-to club and a go-to shot, like back to your comfort food. Choose that club and that shot over anything. And hopefully before the round you’ve been honest with yourself — this is a qualifier, you obviously want to qualify. How are you gonna stay in the best mental space for you? Use all these tools to tee yourself up for success that day. Then rehash it afterwards — how did I do?
Josh Nichols
Yeah. And I absolutely did. I realize there’s something holding me back. I don’t know that I’ve actually gotten to the bottom of it — what am I scared of? I say that to myself a lot while I play. What are you scared of? What are you so worried about? So I need to talk to somebody.
Julie Elion
You and so many people. There’s a tendency to play scared or play defense. And if we’re tense, I’ll play kind of tense and play scared too. But every swing is another choice. How about I just take my favorite club and swing free? It’s scary because you think you’re gonna mess it up worse. But if you’re scared and tense, what I would do is acknowledge it — I’m feeling scared and tense and my best golf isn’t coming out of me. And whether you’re on the first hole or the seventeenth, you can still practice what you want to feel. Afterwards you acknowledge what you did well and what you want to improve on, and you bring it to the next time.
One of the things I like to do — I don’t think I put it in the book — is have clients keep a scorecard that’s not just a score. I call it an engagement score, or a commitment score, or an intentionality score. How mentally solid was I over that shot? Keep a score of one to ten. Then go back and look — wow, I wasn’t really committed there, or I was really nervous, and what triggered that? In real time you can look at what was holding you back.
Josh Nichols
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can go back through the eleven shots where you gave yourself a three and ask what were the circumstances. Was it score-related? Other people-related? The club? The situation? I was going to ask if you like something like a mental scorecard — sounds like you do.
Julie Elion
As long as you’re not using it to beat yourself up.
Josh Nichols
Of course. What would a post-mortem look like for a tournament where a player won? Would you still try to excavate areas to improve, or are you trying to pour gasoline on how awesome they did?
Julie Elion
Both. He’s already a hard worker — he’s already texted me his goals today. I said on Tuesday morning, okay, few days off and then back to work. He wants to play well at the Travelers and the British is coming up in a few weeks. So both — I want to acknowledge how awesome he is, but I also want to get back to work. What happened when he lost the lead? What was that? Was the crowd getting to him? Where was he getting nervous? All that.
One thing that I did — and I think he’ll be okay with me saying this — on the range I actually told him to take his shoes off. And he looked at me like, what are you talking about? He seemed so flighty and nervous and in his head. I wanted him to feel the earth under his feet, to ground him. There are cameras on him and he’s taking his shoes off, and the caddy even said, they’ll just think you have pebbles in your shoes. And I don’t love that, because I’m like, let’s get rid of the stigma around mental health. But it was just dealing with the nerves in real time. I was just trying to come up with something.
Josh Nichols
That’s so cool. Almost like — do something so weird that you have a sense of humor about it. Be where your feet are. Other people’s voices don’t matter. You’re right here, where you want to be.
Julie Elion
Right. And trust your prep. One thing that happens a lot — especially in qualifiers or different levels of competition — is hopefully you’ve worked really hard for that moment. You want to take that toolbox and say, I’ve really prepared for this moment. Physically, mentally, sleep, food, practice. That’s why I say learn from it. I hear this a lot — my God, I was working so much on figuring out the driver, I forgot to work on the putter. But hopefully if it’s an important tournament you’ve hit it from all angles. I always say, show up to that first tee feeling like you’ve prepped as well as you can. And then there’s nothing else you can do.
Josh Nichols
You mentioned something early in the book — you wouldn’t try to grow a garden without following gardening best practices, so why would you try to improve your game without golf improvement best practices?
Julie Elion
I said to a player today, till the soil. He didn’t know what I meant, which is fine — he’s not a gardener. But those of us who’ve had vegetable gardens know you till the soil to prepare it so the plants can thrive. I feel the same way about a golf match that’s important to you. Till the soil. Prepare the soil so your best self can come out.
Josh Nichols
What could a player do the night before a competitive round — club championship, whatever — to till the soil? Is there a tactic, a conversation they could have with themselves?
Julie Elion
Read my book first. But there’s so much great stuff accessible online now — box breathing, for instance. I also do something called a brain drain. A few hours before your tee time, take a piece of paper — not even your phone if you can help it — and just get everything that’s on your brain up and out onto the page.
Meditation is another one, and people sometimes misunderstand what that is. It doesn’t have to have a religious or spiritual context. It can really be about how to deal with intrusive thoughts — my God, what if I screw up this hole. And learning, by practicing meditation, to not give that thought any energy and just let it go, like a cloud moving across the sky. And like I said earlier, if you’re gonna have a thought and stick to it, it might as well be something good. But train for these moments. We’re really lucky, there’s so much access online now. And it starts with saying, hey, I want to get better at this. It’s not just my swing or my stroke — it’s how I feel about myself. And if that’s important to you, work at it.
Josh Nichols
It’s kind of crazy that someone would just assume they’ll show up and be fine — that they’ll be confident, they’ll feel freed up, they’ll handle random crazy thoughts — without giving that a second thought. That’s a pretty wild expectation.
Julie Elion
I definitely know athletes and businesspeople who are like that, but they’re probably not talking to me. I could rattle off professional golfers’ names who are more like that. And they’re defended. I had one client — I don’t think it was exactly who I was talking about in the book, but — he just had no interest. He admitted it. I don’t wanna dig deep. I’m fine. I don’t wanna go there. Great, that’s his prerogative.
Josh Nichols
Should everybody be digging deep? Is it good for everybody?
Julie Elion
Great question. No. Do I think the world would be a better place? Yeah, probably. Some more self-awareness, less judgment, being more kind to each other — I sound like Ellen DeGeneres. But I think it’s important in this way: I’ve had these really bad parent and coach stories, and those of us who had those experiences and will be parents someday — we hope we can stop the parade and do better. The only way to do that is to get to know what that was like for you and how you want to do differently with your kids. I always say to parents, the best thing you can do for your kids is to work on yourself.
Josh Nichols
Yes. Because without working on yourself and without stepping outside of it to take a hard look at how it actually went, you just kind of swim in the waters of your family and go, yeah, that’s just how parents treat their kids.
Julie Elion
It’s being unconscious, which is fine. But if you wanna change something or be better, or it’s not totally going great — golf, parenting, a garden — you probably want to look at what you can change inside yourself. I’m really okay with people who don’t want to, except if they’re hurting themselves or hurting other people. If they don’t want to dig deep and they’re content, it’s totally fine.
Josh Nichols
If they’re content, right. Is there still stigma on tour — like, you work with a mental coach? That’s kind of weak, can’t you just man up?
Julie Elion
Getting way, way better, but absolutely still there. I have clients who don’t really want me on the range when they’re warming up. That could be for various reasons, but there’s still a stigma. It’s getting better and I think Wyndham’s story is a piece of that — somebody with a platform, talking about it. There’s been so much lately. Jalen Brunson from the Knicks came out and said something. There are just so many great role models right now talking about it.
Josh Nichols
Yeah, that gymnast — Simone Biles — a major version of that. Open and vulnerable.
Julie Elion
I love her. She says, before anything she does, I’ve got this. I love that. And I saw a tennis player — maybe I put it in the book — who said something to himself that could have sounded like self-judgment but was really self-cheerleading, and he spoke openly about it. I can’t remember who it was.
Josh Nichols
Could that be misconstrued as a little too cheerleady? A little too positive, not acknowledging how you feel? Like fake positivity?
Julie Elion
I mean, it’s your competition. Whatever helps — as long as you’re not hurting yourself or another person — being a cheerleader for yourself is great. And I heard something else: reframe your nerves as inner applause. People might hear that and roll their eyes. But the fact is we can control how we want to feel and what we want to think.
Josh Nichols
Interpret the experiences you’re having. You said it’s not what happens, it’s how you respond. It’s not the feeling necessarily — it’s how you respond and interpret the feeling.
Julie Elion
That’s right. Let’s say you have first-tee nerves. The last thing you want to do is go, my God, I can’t believe I have first-tee nerves. You more want to say, there are those nerves — okay. Now how am I going to respond in a way that doesn’t affect my swing?
Josh Nichols
What’s the Fluff thing — there’s no “don’t” in golf?
Julie Elion
I was lucky enough to play a round of golf with him before the British, like twenty years ago. He’s a great player and a great guy. Hi Fluff, if you’re listening. I said something like, don’t go over there, or something like that. And he said, Julie, never say that to a player or yourself. There’s no “don’t” in golf. Talk about where you want to go, not where you don’t want to go.
Josh Nichols
Yes — pursuit-oriented as opposed to avoidance-oriented. My gosh. I want to talk to you forever. This is so good. I can see why you’ve got the clientele you have. You’re so easy and enjoyable to talk to.
Julie Elion
You ask good questions and it takes a good podcast host to bring out what somebody’s good at. You’ve done that. So I’m acknowledging that you’re a good podcast host. But it doesn’t matter that I think that — you have to think that.
Josh Nichols
I have to think that. It helps to hear it, though. Mastering Your Mental Game is out now — people can go to Amazon or wherever to get it. Such a good book, Julie. Thank you so much for writing it. You didn’t have to. You didn’t have anything to prove to anybody, but you wrote this awesome book, so thank you.
Julie Elion
Thank you for saying that. It was a twenty-five year project, but it’s out. Thank you so much.
Josh Nichols
Thanks for being on the podcast.
